Author Topic: TFL, code 46 Stopped where prohibited, Commerical Street by Spitalfields Market  (Read 218 times)

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Crimsmoke

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Hi all,

I received a PCN from TfL on the 3rd December for stopping where prohibited on Commercial Street (E1) outside Spitalfields Market. The 21-day discount period is coming up on Monday, so I’m trying to figure out if there’s any point in appealing this or if I should just pay it and move on.

I’d briefly parked there to pick up an item from the shop on the corner of Lamb Street, which is in the congestion zone which I didn't want to pay (the irony in hindsight). Things have been really rough that day, so I didn’t have the headspace to process much at the time. Honestly, I can’t recall if I saw the signage, but Street View shows signs for those bays. I also noticed another car parked there, which may have influenced me giving me the confirmation bias that it was ok to park for a few minutes.

Is it worth challenging this, or should I just accept this and pay before the discount period is up?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Streetview link

PCN pictures

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Incandescent

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GSV is dated October 2024, so I think we can assume the sign was there on the day of the alleged contravention.

You were there 10 minutes after the parking period ended, so I don't think a de minimis appeal would work.   They also seem to have given you the 10 minute grace period as the PCN is bang-on 10 minutes after the end of the parking period.  Were you parked there before 16.00 ? What time did you depart the location, (approx) ?

There is a strong likelihood of a 'technical' appeal being available based on TfL's management of the enforcement process and the content of the PCN itself, but others are more expert on this aspect than me, so don't cough-up just yet, but wait a bit to see what the others say.

Crimsmoke

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I can't remember what time I parked but was definitely no more than 10 minutes max and I left no later than 4:15pm

stamfordman

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You are allowed 10 mins grace after parking in a permitted parking place so we usually say a PCN couldn't be issued until 16:11 in this case provide you were there by 15:59. While it's true 16:10 could be in the 11th minute 16:10 with no seconds is exactly 10 mins.

Crimsmoke

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Ok, so I'm wondering if there's any viable way of challenging this on TFL's enforcement procedures? Discount period is up tomorrow and will have to get this dealt with. Thanks.

roythebus

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Was this a PCN stuck on the vehicle or issued by camera?
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

Incandescent

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Was this a PCN stuck on the vehicle or issued by camera?
Camera, as its a Red Route parking bay


Crimsmoke

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I wrote out something with help from ChatGPT pointing out the 10 minutes grace and De minimis approach. Can you help eyeball the letter and let me know if there's any adjustments needed? I think I may need to focus on the 11th minute argument or the de minimis approach.

Quote
I am writing to challenge the Penalty Charge Notice issued to my vehicle. The PCN was issued at 16:10 with the CCTV evidence timestamped at 16:10:15. I believe this PCN is invalid on the following grounds:

1. 10 Minute Grace Period:
The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2022 stipulates a statutory 10 minute grace period for vehicles parked in bays where parking is permitted. In this case, the parking bay allows free parking until 16:00, meaning enforcement action cannot lawfully commence until the 11th minute upon expiry of the valid pasking session.

The PCN was issued at 16:10 and even though the evidence was timestamped at 16:10:15, it falls within a trivial time window (15 seconds beyond the grace period), making enforcement overly strict and inconsistent with the intention of the law.

2. De Minimis Principle:
Even if the 15-second overrun is deemed technically outside the grace period, the de minimis principle should apply. This legal principle recognises that trivial breaches do not warrant enforcement action. The 15-second delay is negligible and does not cause any significant obstruction or contravention of parking rules. Issuing a PCN in this case is disproportionate and unreasonable.

I kindly request that this PCN be cancelled, given the circumstances. The 15-second margin is well within reasonable limits of compliance and does not undermine the purpose of parking regulations. Furthermore, enforcing such a minor infraction undermines the fairness and reasonableness expected in public enforcement.

I trust that you will consider this appeal in light of the regulations and principles outlined above.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2024, 05:41:56 pm by Crimsmoke »

Crimsmoke

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Ok, something else I just picked up when I've just double checked the GSV signs. I think parking sign is confusing, it says except 10am to 4pm parking allowed for 1 hour. Can this be interpreted as except for the period of 10am to 4pm, you can park for 1 hour? As normal signs will tell you when you can park.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/faTS9hURrSEtANuv6
« Last Edit: January 10, 2025, 05:20:25 pm by cp8759 »

stamfordman

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You need to lose all that stuff about their evidence and seconds. The PCN time is 16:10.

See the case I posted.

Crimsmoke

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I got a rejection letter from TFL in line with what wax expected. I note that they mentioned 16:11, when the PCN only said 16:10. Here's a copy and paste of the rejection letter content.

Quote
Notice of Rejection

Thank you for your representation received regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

In your representation, you stated that the red route parking bay permitted parking until 16:00, and the PCN was issued at 16:10, where a 10-minute grace period is required.

We have decided to reject your representation for the following reasons:

Please be advised that your vehicle was observed from 16:09 until 16:11. The vehicle is observed stationary within the parking bay.

We issued the PCN because your vehicle was observed stationary on the date and time of contravention at the above location. The signage in place indicates "No Stopping on any day, Any Day 7am - 7pm Except 10am-4pm parking 1 hour, No return within 2 hours." Being stationary within a red route parking bay outside the permitted times of stopping constitutes a contravention.

Roads on the red route have stopping and parking restrictions in place, which can be identified by red lines, red and white bays, and road signs indicating the times when parking or stopping is allowed.

It is the responsibility of the driver to be aware of and comply with the red route restrictions as laid out in the Highway Code.

Statutory signs or road markings are in place, giving drivers adequate information regarding the red route restrictions at the above location. TfL will allow drivers a reasonable time to check the restrictions; however, the priority must be to do this.

When considering representations and appeals, we fully consider all the circumstances present, including any mitigating factors and whether it would be appropriate to apply our discretion over the enforcement of a PCN. In this instance, we have decided not to exercise that discretion, as we do not consider the mitigating factors present give reason to cancel the PCN(s) because the vehicle can be seen stationary within the parking bay outside of the permitted hours. It is clear the PCN has been correctly issued.

Transport for London (TfL) has considered your representation in accordance with the requirements of the above Act but we do not accept that you have established grounds or suitable reasons for the penalty charge to be cancelled. This letter is issued as a formal Notice of Rejection of your representation.

You should now make full payment for the outstanding PCN(s) within 28 days of the service of this Notice. The amount(s) currently due is set out below. For those PCNs held at the discounted penalty charge amount, we will provide you a further 14 days beginning with the date of this notice to pay and close the PCN at that rate. If the PCN(s) remain unpaid after this 14-day period, the penalty charge due will revert to the standard penalty charge amount as stated on the PCN.

You may appeal to an Environment and Traffic Adjudicator at London Tribunals, an independent adjudication service, against this decision on specified grounds within 28 days of the date of service of this letter. The adjudicator will consider your appeal and make an independent decision, which Transport for London will comply with. Please do not send your appeal to us, and be aware an Adjudicator can only decide an appeal on statutory grounds. Further information is available on the London Tribunals website.

If you want to appeal to an Environment and Traffic Adjudicator at London Tribunals, please ensure you read the enclosed form carefully, in particular the Appeal Procedure, and then complete, sign, and send the attached form within 28 days of the date of service of this letter to London Tribunals, PO Box 10598, Nottingham, NG6 6DR.

You should be aware that, in prescribed circumstances, the Adjudicator may award costs against you if the appeal is considered frivolous or vexatious or that the making, pursuing, or resisting of the appeal was wholly unreasonable. Equally, costs may be awarded against Transport for London if the adjudicator considers that the disputed decision was wholly unreasonable.

If you do not pay the penalty charge or submit an appeal within 28 days of the date of service of this notice of rejection, a Charge Certificate may be served. This increases the penalty charge by 50% of the original amount. If the increased Penalty Charge is not paid, then Transport for London will apply to the County Court to recover the charges, which will incur a further charge of £10 per Penalty Charge Notice.

HOW TO PAY

a) Credit/Debit card payments may be made ONLINE at tfl.gov.uk/redroutepayments
b) Credit/Debit card payments may be made by downloading the TfL Pay to Drive in London app
c) Payment can be made by POST to:
Red Routes
PO Box 335
Darlington
DL1 9PU

PLEASE DO NOT SEND CASH IN THE POST. All cheques/postal orders must be made payable to Transport for London and crossed "a/c payee." Please ensure your vehicle registration and Penalty Charge Number are written clearly on the back. Post-dated cheques will not be accepted.

PCN Number: GX20513911
Outstanding Balance: £80.00

Yours sincerely,

D. Milton
Contracts & Operations Manager

H C Andersen

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Register your appeal.
Grounds:
Penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.
Procedural impropriety.

Further representations may be made upon review of the authority's evidence.


For your benefit and knocking around until refined here are some thoughts.

The PCN states:

'Transport for London believes that a penalty charge is payable....for the alleged contravention of ....on 21/11/2024 at 16.10'.

The 'General' Regulations (which regulate these PCNs) state

Imposition of penalty charges for relevant road traffic contraventions
5.—(1) A penalty charge may be imposed with respect to a vehicle where that vehicle is involved in a relevant road traffic contravention which is committed on or after the commencement date.

(2) But no penalty charge may be imposed under paragraph (1) in relation to a parking contravention where—

(a)the vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place and is left beyond the permitted parking period, and

(b)the period for which it is left beyond the permitted parking period does not exceed 10 minutes.

....
"designated parking place” means a parking place established by virtue of an order made under section 1, 6, 9, 32(1)(b), 35 or 45 of the RTRA 1984;
“permitted parking period” means a period of parking—
(a)....
or

(b) for which no charge is payable as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place.


For info, the order creating the restrictions and exemptions at the location was made under section 6...RTRA. Therefore the 'grace' period applies.

The exempted period ended at 16.00.

The authority's own evidence shows that they believed they were entitled to impose a penalty at 16.10.

They were not because at that time 'the period for which it ..[had been] left beyond the permitted parking period [did] not exceed 10 minutes.

For the purposes of the regulation it is immaterial for how long a vehicle was left after a penalty had been demanded.

Parliament specified the exact period of 10 minutes and it does not lie with TfL to amend this.

Similarly, the Notice of Rejection states the following:
You may appeal to an Environment and Traffic Adjudicator at London Tribunals, an independent adjudication service, against this decision on specified grounds within 28 days of the date of service of this letter.

This is incorrect and materially misleading because the term 'within' means beginning on the day after the trigger event(in this case the deemed date of service) therefore TfL have stated that you may (taking its proper construction of 'have a legal right to') appeal on day 29 after service.

This is not your legal right and to avoid owners misunderstanding their situation the regulations impose a requirement on an authority to specify this period in a NOR. Failure to do this constitutes a procedural impropriety which is a statutory ground of appeal.

Further, they have also failed to notify you that, subject to the approval of the adjudicator and other conditions, you may request that your appeal is registered after the '28-day period'.

OP, pl post the 'enclosed form'.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2025, 02:22:53 pm by H C Andersen »

cp8759

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Oh dear, this is all going very far off track, the proposed grounds of appeal are wrong and hopeless because the traffic order does not create any designated parking place, so an appeal on the grounds suggested will fall flat on its face.

ChatGPT is very good at producing absolute drivel, this is the second AI generated rep I've seent today and it's just as misguided as the first.

That being said the discount will be reoffered if an appeal is notified to TFL before the end of the discount period, and there is an arguable issue with the Notice of Rejection.

@Crimsmoke I'm going to drop you a PM in case you'd like me to represent you.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

H C Andersen

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Is a view on the first grounds, but not one apparently supported by the Traffic Signs etc. Regs, Schedule 6, Part 2 which specifies the form of possible exceptions to be included in a bottom panel of an upright Red Route sign and which carries this description against item 1 which is the white letter P on a blue background:

Parking place

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/6/made

TfL's NOR also refers to 'parking'.,

As I say, to be knocked around for views.