Author Topic: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5  (Read 411 times)

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cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2024, 09:43:15 pm »
Good evening, How long does it usually take for TFL to respond to an appeal? Thanks
For a moving traffic PCN normally 3 / 4 weeks, but it can take as much as 2 / 3 months.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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zeetopchoice

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2024, 09:44:27 pm »
Thanks a ton for your help with this information.

Good evening, How long does it usually take for TFL to respond to an appeal? Thanks
For a moving traffic PCN normally 3 / 4 weeks, but it can take as much as 2 / 3 months.

cross_legend

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2024, 07:52:26 pm »
If you know how to do video editing and annotation I believe you have good chance to win.

If we focus on 2:19 of the video, when you just entered the YBJ, the bus shadowed the path that you were going to use from the view point of the camera. If you can use some tool to remove the bus from the image we should be able to show clearly that there was a clear path and a clear exit (there were other cars moving long the path and the exit, but they were not blocking). The position of the bus at 2:19, if we can draw a line around its perimeter on the ground, I believe there is no way you can tell that it will block your exit in a few seconds.  Even when the bus has switched lane and stopped, its tail just sit at the left edge of your exit, actually there was no way the bus was blocking your path or exit at 2:19.

You can also argue that at 2:16, there was another black car exactly to the right of the bus and in front of you. At 2:19 when you entered the YBJ, the black car is right in the shadow of the bus. It successfully entered and leaved the YBJ. You were supposed to follow the black car's path when you entered the YBJ. The black car's existence actually is your proof.

@cp8759 's representation is good enough. The difficult part is how to show it clearly via image and video. The adjudicator does not necessarily have the patience to study the video as thoroughly as we do.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2024, 08:10:10 pm by cross_legend »
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zeetopchoice

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2024, 08:24:51 pm »
I will check with my friends to see if the proposed editing is possible. Thank you very much for thoroughly reviewing the video; your help is greatly appreciated.

If you know how to do video editing and annotation I believe you have good chance to win.

If we focus on 2:19 of the video, when you just entered the YBJ, the bus shadowed the path that you were going to use from the view point of the camera. If you can use some tool to remove the bus from the image we should be able to show clearly that there was a clear path and a clear exit (there were other cars moving long the path and the exit, but they were not blocking). The position of the bus at 2:19, if we can draw a line around its perimeter on the ground, I believe there is no way you can tell that it will block your exit in a few seconds.  Even when the bus has switched lane and stopped, its tail just sit at the left edge of your exit, actually there was no way the bus was blocking your path or exit at 2:19.

You can also argue that at 2:16, there was another black car exactly to the right of the bus and in front of you. At 2:19 when you entered the YBJ, the black car is right in the shadow of the bus. It successfully entered and leaved the YBJ. You were supposed to follow the black car's path when you entered the YBJ. The black car's existence actually is your proof.

@cp8759 's representation is good enough. The difficult part is how to show it clearly via image and video. The adjudicator does not necessarily have the patience to study the video as thoroughly as we do.

cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2024, 10:12:20 pm »
@cp8759 's representation is good enough. The difficult part is how to show it clearly via image and video. The adjudicator does not necessarily have the patience to study the video as thoroughly as we do.
That's why you ask for a hearing rather than a decision on the papers, but obviously the clear the evidence the easier the task becomes.

In one case the adjudicator had to listen to me and my opponent for over four hours.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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zeetopchoice

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2024, 08:48:33 pm »
I received the response to my TFL PCN appeal kindly suggested by @cp8759, but it ended up in my spam folder. I normally donít check my spam folder, but I had to because of a storage notification from Gmail. The email was only sent to me yesterday, and unfortunately, TFL has rejected my appeal. Please find the outcome attached here for your reference.

Now, Iím wondering if itís worth appealing to an Environment and Traffic Adjudicator at London Tribunals, or if I should just accept the decision and pay the fine. I would greatly appreciate any expert advice on this matter. Has anyone had success with the adjudicator in similar situations, or would it be more practical to pay the fine and move on? Thanks in advance for your insights.

zeetopchoice

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2024, 08:51:06 pm »
I am unable to upload the attachment.

Error: The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 08:59:23 pm by zeetopchoice »

zeetopchoice

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MrChips

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2024, 10:42:05 pm »
It's not letting me access, you may need to change the settings to allow general access.

zeetopchoice

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2024, 10:49:34 pm »
@MrChips thanks for highlighting. Please try now. Thanks
« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 11:21:58 pm by zeetopchoice »

cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2024, 02:02:02 am »
@zeetopchoice well it's not the strongest case I've seen, but our experience to date is that if you appeal while the discount is still on offer, TFL will allow you to pay the discounted amount even if you lose the tribunal appeal.

I'm going to drop you a PM in case you'd like to be represented.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

zeetopchoice

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2024, 11:10:21 am »
@cp8759 thanks a lot and i have responded to you.

I greatly appreciate your assistance and help with this matter.

@zeetopchoice well it's not the strongest case I've seen, but our experience to date is that if you appeal while the discount is still on offer, TFL will allow you to pay the discounted amount even if you lose the tribunal appeal.

I'm going to drop you a PM in case you'd like to be represented.

cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2024, 04:17:48 pm »
DNC'ed.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

zeetopchoice

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2024, 09:20:03 pm »
@cp8759 Thanks for all your help and assistance.
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zeetopchoice

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2024, 06:09:05 pm »
What could be the reason I am unable to upload an image?

An Error Has Occurred!
The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator.