Author Topic: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West  (Read 368 times)

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willdudeuk

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Hi, looking for some help to challenge the following PCN I have received from TFL for Stopping in a Box Junction.




Do I have a case to challenge or appeal this please?


I was hoping there would be a video available to watch but I can't see this online.


Is this something I need to request?


Any help to get this cancelled would be appreciated.


Thank you.



PCN & EVIDENCE IMAGES















GOOGLE STEET VIEW LOCATION


https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZpgQ3QFRvqu8kQso6

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willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2024, 07:32:47 am »
Is there grounds for appeal or challenging this due to the fact there is no evidence or video showing the entry into the YBJ?

Could I also use the TWOC and Conflation argument to see their response?

Thank you.

cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2024, 09:46:42 am »
@willdudeuk call TFL on 0343 222 3333 and ask for the video, they will send you a DVD in the post and put the penalty on hold while you wait. If you haven't got the DVD in the post after 10 days, call up and chase and also let us know. The PCN might be put on hold, but you should still submit representations before the end of the 28 day representations period even if the video isn't received in time.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2024, 11:10:54 am »
Thank you @cp8759 I shall call them up today and request the DVD.

In the meantime what else can I do?

What should I be putting in my representation?

cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2024, 11:32:14 am »
@willdudeuk put a reminder in your calendar to chase up the video in 10 days if you've not received it by then, and also update this thread with the state of play at the same time.

If you receive the video in the meantime, post it on here please.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2024, 11:38:25 am »
So conveniently for them their system was "down" the first attempt of asking.


On second attempt I have just rung again / transferred to another agent and the footage has been issued

on DVD to me under a reference number.


They were very keen to know why I wanted the footage and wanted to try and explain the footage over the

phone to me but I refused.


Let's see what happens.

Shall set a reminder in 10 days time if hasn't been received.


Does this mean the PCN goes on hold or not? @cp8759

cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2024, 11:42:03 am »
If you have a look on https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/challenge-a-pcn it now says this under PCN status history:

I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2024, 11:24:01 am »
Status update but still no DVD of the evidence yet, any ideas what this status means @cp8759 ?


cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2024, 11:22:15 pm »
Status update but still no DVD of the evidence yet, any ideas what this status means @cp8759 ?
It means your CCTV request has either been processed, or is in the pipeline to be sent out. Hopefully you'll get it in the next few days.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2024, 11:23:08 am »
Iíve received the DVD in the post. What is the best way to get it up on here so it can be viewed? @cp8759
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willdudeuk

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« Last Edit: April 26, 2024, 11:50:56 am by willdudeuk »

Incandescent

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2024, 12:19:58 pm »
Well, I have to say the contravention itself seems to be made on from the video. You blithely entered the box with no hesitation at all, but the car in front occupied the only space, thus forcing you to stop.

However, don't rush to pay yet, bcause experts on here are very good at finding flaws in TfL's management of the enforcement process, so wait a bit, but don't miss the deadline for payment or submitting reps if nobody answers.

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2024, 12:40:58 pm »
Okay thank you for your response @Incandescent

Iím not sure how long the PCN gets suspended after the video has been given out and received.

Also Iím not sure what I should be putting in my challenge for the representation.

Pastmybest

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2024, 01:44:59 pm »
The contravention is causing a vehicle to enter the box then having to stop due to the presence of stationary vehicles

The video does not show the entry into the box nor the reason for the stop,

2160264616

Paragraph 7(1) of Part II of Schedule 19 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 provides that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter a box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicle.

In this case the closed circuit television evidence produced by Transport for London does not show the Appellantís vehicle as it enters the box junction.

Although the vehicle does stop within the box junction, I cannot determine the position when the vehicle actually entered the box, as this is completely outside the focus of the camera.

Considering all the evidence before me carefully I cannot find as a fact that, on this particular occasion, a contravention did occur.

Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2024, 02:18:22 pm »
Thank @Pastmybest appreciate you putting this together for me.

What is the number reference you have quoted? Is that a case number from another or similar contravention?

The initial video doesnít show the entry however the latter videos do so I am not sure how convincing this will be. Unless I am missing something?

Still would like to challenge this and see if we can get the PCN cancelled.