3. TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
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sammiefields2512

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TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« on: January 10, 2025, 12:03:32 pm »
Date of notice: 27/12/2024

Online images: https://imgur.com/a/NwisHTs

I received this PCN just yesterday, due to Royal Mail delays during the Christmas period. Today is the last day to appeal before the discounted amount deadline.

If I don't get a response by the end of the day, then I'll submit a quick response myself. Please let me know if you think I should wait until I get some detailed help from this forum.

My reasons for disputing this PCN are as follows:

1. Short distance travelled in the bus lane

The car is shown to enter the bus lane at the start of a bus stop. The bus lane ends immediately at the end of that bus stop.

On page 4 of the PCN, it says, "If you have driven in the bus lane for only a very short distance we do not usually issue a PCN...". So why did they?

Also, the image evidence does not show the car having traveled any distance at all in the bus lane. The car may have simply entered the bus lane, driver realised it was a bus lane, and exited the bus lane immediately.

2. No evidence that my vehicle was in a bus lane

The only image that clearly shows a number plate is on the back of the vehicle in image 1, but in this image the vehicle is not in a bus lane.

If you look at the online images (link above), images 2 and 3 show a car in a bus lane, but the registration number is barely visible.

This argument may not work if they have access to higher resolution images that they haven't posted online. There are no videos on their website, just the 3 images in the link above.


I'd really appreciate your input if you have any experience in challenging bus lane PCN's.

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Incandescent

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2025, 12:09:24 pm »
Ring them up quick, like immediately, and request the video. This will put the PCN on hold for 2 weeks, and takes the pressure off you.
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sammiefields2512

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2025, 12:46:30 pm »
Thanks for the tip Incandescent, called them just now, will receive video in next 7 days, and said I'll have another 2 weeks after that!

I'll post the video on here when I receive it.
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Hippocrates

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2025, 01:17:53 pm »
The Penalty Charge Notice is unenforceable because:

1. The reference to The Interpretation Act is both irrelevant and confusing as the legislation pertaining to Bus Lane enforcement refers to actions which may be taken by the authority and/or appellant from the date of the notice.

2. The statement: "Any written correspondence before the issue of the Enforcement Notice will not be treated as a formal representation." fetters discretion and is contrary to the legislation in that it clearly implies that you will send an Enforcement Notice when the legislation states "may" at 4(3)(e)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/4/enacted

3. The statement: "It will not entitle you to the right of appeal." is both absurd and flies in the face of the law and natural justice. Further, the next statement about consideration seems to contradict what has been previously stated.

4. The statement: "Failure to respond or contact us within 28 days of the service date of this notice will result in the Enforcement Notice automatically being sent to you after this period." similarly fetters discretion and also misstates the time period.

Request for the video if not received

I ask for a copy asap please.

The alleged contravention did not occur

The embedded photograph on the PCN  lacks any proof of relevant signage either passed or in situ.
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".
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sammiefields2512

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2025, 02:04:19 pm »
Thank you Hippocrates, I will post the video on here as soon as I receive it.
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cp8759

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2025, 05:24:55 pm »
@sammiefields2512 as per the guidance here, please re-post the PCN with only your name and address redacted.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

sammiefields2512

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2025, 11:04:11 am »
cp8759, apologies, PCN reposted with only name and address redacted.

Google Street View link:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XaCvKjVd5YA5hfNL8
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sammiefields2512

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2025, 10:23:32 am »
I received the video via CD a couple days ago (took a couple days to find a CD drive to play it in).

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoUN_9nVepo

My car is seen from 47 seconds.

This is a regular route for me. I once took the end of the bus lane like this by mistake and didn't receive a PCN. Then I figured it must be ok to use the end of the bus lane, maybe since it ends with a bus stop. Then they installed a new camera and I received two tickets! The second event occurred before I received the first PCN. I’ll make a new post for the second PCN.

Could I argue that it's just the end of the bus lane, and that I didn't inconvenience any buses?

Also, the original PCN price was £80. When I first called to request the video, a woman answered and said they're sending a USB. Then when I didn't receive anything, I called again and they said there's no record of my first call, so the price had gone up to £160.

When I sign in at tfl, it doesn't tell me how long I have left to submit an appeal.

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
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Hippocrates

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2025, 09:15:19 am »
This is a tricky one as the video shows two signs, the first one of which may be a 959B sign, but we still cannot see what is written on it.

The ones I have won were achieved on a legal technicality: they did not turn up (twice) and they failed to include the camera certificate (once).
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

sammiefields2512

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2025, 11:09:25 pm »
This is the signage leading up to that bus stop. No 959B signs. Does this help my case?

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Hippocrates

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2025, 10:00:48 am »
Is there a 959B sign BEFORE the bus lane - not the bus stop? It is their job to prove there is. I assume no first rejection letter yet?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2025, 10:03:49 am by Hippocrates »
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

sammiefields2512

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Re: TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2025, 02:11:51 pm »
There are two 959B signs, one before the bus lane, another one in the middle. The middle one is about 200 metres away from the end of the bus lane where the camera is.

Re rejection letter, I haven't appealed yet! I was waiting for advice on here. I don't know yet if I should appeal or pay up.

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  3. TFL Bus Lane PCN, East India Dock Road E14 Eastbound from Brunswick Rd