3. TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD  (Read 1450 times)

0 Members and 110 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #15 on: »
Logged
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #16 on: »
Many thanks.

How do I submit this?  The receipt for the previous change came from a “noreply” address, and on the Challenge page for the PCN, there is no longer a place to submit anything.

Is there an email address that I can use? Or do I have to ring them to say that I want to add to my challenge because I have now received the PCN?
Logged
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #17 on: »
Logged
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #18 on: »
Thanks.  That page has lots of links on it.  The one marked “Challenge a PCN” leads to where I went before, with no ability to add to a previous challenge.

However, if you click on “Contact red routes” then “Online form: ask a question” and then “Make an enquiry”, you can choose “Penalty charges and enforcement” to post up to 3,000 characters and upload docs.  Just giving all this detail as it might help other people.

I will upload your text, appropriately adjusted, and and will post anything that I get back.

You text includes the statement “The alleged contravention did not occur”.   I think that I could add “because the vehicle was crossing the bus lane to reach an off-street parking place.”

And then “In any case, the PCN is unenforceable because … …”
Logged
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #19 on: »
@AFMAC you'll have to make a representation by post. If you try any other method TFL will say they could disregard the representations because they were not made in the form and manner stated in the enforcement notice.

Get proof of postage.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #20 on: »
Quote from: AFMAC on September 24, 2024, 09:49:08 pm
I think that I could add “because the vehicle was crossing the bus lane to reach an off-street parking place.”
Why would you admit that the vehicle crossed the bus lane? Everything you say can and will be used against you, so don't give them anything.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #21 on: »
@cp8759.   Thank you.  I am very grateful for all the advice on FTLA, which is based on such considerable knowledge and experience.

I am in Italy, but can get my son to post my further representations.

On your second point, I thought that something needed to be added to the simple statement “The alleged contravention did not occur”.  I completely understand your point about not giving them an inch, but since the photo shows the car clearly in a bus lane, I don’t follow that it is making a concession by acknowledging that.  But I agree that one can’t be too careful.

Regards
Logged
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #22 on: »
@AFMAC you are not required to give them anything at all as long as you claim they should cancel the penalty owing to a statutory ground of appeal being made out.

We don't know if there is a traffic order that legally creates a bus lane, we don't know if there is evidence of upright signs, we don't know if the CCTV camera is an approved device, the list is endless.  Any of those factors could mean that the contravention did not occur.

The only thing I would add to the representation is an FOI request for the make and model of the camera, you must ask for this within the representation itself or you won't get a response.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #23 on: »
@cp8759. Many thanks.  I will post anything I get back.
Logged
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #24 on: »
I have now received the video, and attach it.  It doesn’t add much to the photos, but it does show that the car stopped after passing our gate posts, and is positioned ready to reverse into the entrance.
The status online is shown as
01 October 2024On Hold: CORRES RECEIVED PRIOR TO WARRANT
N/A
01 October 2024On Hold: SUS26 - Representation Received
N/A

Should I make a further representation?


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gxtPnrf8AG3Ngs1NqJ-bEBGv0h0N70YY/view?usp=drive_link
Logged
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #25 on: »
I have today received by email a rejection letter, which I attach, together with my first and second representations.

In respect of the second representation, I made a very silly mistake.  I was out of the country, so had to send the letter to my son to post, and managed to send him the version including the reference to crossing the bus lane, instead of the version leaving that out, as recommended by @cp8759.  It also omitted the FOI request, but I have since made that separately.

I note they have responded to that statement, but have ignored the statement that it unenforceable. apart from stating “It is clear the PCN has been correctly issued”.  They have not therefore dealt with all my representations.

What should I do now?  I never received the PCN, and so never had an opportunity to pay the discounted amount of £80.

Kind regards


Rejection   
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uutCw-_PhKnev9punRphBYVpcWCa1Sa_/view?usp=sharing


Rep 1     https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UhhEQZdr82TmW9wWOxshTw_mkQ1oFBcw/view?usp=sharing

Rep 2    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HI81Whl0gJGxntUxAUpeXNUb7Z_yvCpQ/view?usp=sharing

Logged
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #26 on: »
@AFMAC This is now a no brainer it seems to me to file an appeal to the Tribunal. Others may argue re the non-delivery of the PCN. I am more than happy to represent you. The PCN issue may be raised at the Tribunal hearing. I will PM you.

Total failure to consider, which is a collateral ground.

All TFL cases must be filed by post at the Tribunal.

OK: sorted. I am taking care of this one.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2024, 10:56:43 pm by Hippocrates »
Logged
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #27 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 01, 2024, 08:24:19 pm
All TFL cases must be filed by post at the Tribunal.

@Hippocrates absolutely not, the scanned appeal form should be sent by email to queries@londontribunals.org.uk to avoid any risk of postal issues, this also maximises the likelihood of TFL preserving the discount even at the appeal stage (because if TFL are told of the appeal while the discount is still on offer, they keep the penalty frozen at the 50% rate even if the appeal is lost, so it's crucial not to waste 4 / 5 days while the paper form goes through the post and gets scanned).
« Last Edit: November 02, 2024, 12:49:13 pm by cp8759 »
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #28 on: »
Many thanks.
Logged
Re: TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD
« Reply #29 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on November 02, 2024, 12:47:37 pm
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 01, 2024, 08:24:19 pm
All TFL cases must be filed by post at the Tribunal.

@Hippocrates absolutely not, the scanned appeal form should be sent by email to queries@londontribunals.org.uk to avoid any risk of postal issues, this also maximises the likelihood of TFL preserving the discount even at the appeal stage (because if TFL are told of the appeal while the discount is still on offer, they keep the penalty frozen at the 50% rate even if the appeal is lost, so it's crucial not to waste 4 / 5 days while the paper form goes through the post and gets scanned).

@cp8759 But, in the other thread, the OP made reps on line.

The discount has gone as per the NOR. I will raise the issue of the PCN at the hearing.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uutCw-_PhKnev9punRphBYVpcWCa1Sa_/view?usp=sharing
« Last Edit: November 02, 2024, 01:33:36 pm by Hippocrates »
Logged
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Pages: 1 [2] 3
« previous next »
  3. TFL. Being in a bus lane. CLAPHAM RD NE-BND FROM SOUTH LAMBETH RD