Author Topic: TFL - 52g - Rotherhithe Tunnel Approach - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of goods vehicles  (Read 113 times)

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MJBucks

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I rented a Vauxhall Vivaro van from ZipCar to help my daughter and her housemate move from Bermondsey to a new rental in Stepney, I don’t live locally and my only previous experience of driving in that area was when I helped my daughter move into her Bermondsey flat. On our first trip between Bermondsey and Stepney my daughter directed me and we went towards the Rotherhithe tunnel, when we arrived at the tunnel approach road I saw all the signs and the heavy duty metal height restriction so we stopped and my daughter started to google the dimensions of our van, whilst she was doing that I saw a transit van with a roof rack and ladders approaching the height restriction and slowly passing underneath it and down into the tunnel - so we moved on and down the tunnel approach. On the return journey we approached the tunnel and obviously the same restriction signs are there but even if I did see the weight restriction sign I wouldn’t have registered that it applied to our van as I (naively) would have put our weight between 1 and 1.5 T and certainly wouldn’t have any idea what the MGW of the vehicle was just as I suspect most car drivers have no idea how much their car weighs.

I was completely oblivious to having committed the violation until I mentioned the trip to a colleague at work who lives in South London and he said he thought you couldn’t take vans through the Rotherhithe, needless to say after a bit of googling it became obvious I had f**ked up.

I don’t deny that the signs were there and just because I saw two or three other vans in the tunnel during my journeys through it that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have followed without doing more checks, but looking at the weight restriction versus the average van and pick up MGW a sign that read ‘NO HGVs, NO VANS, NO PICK UPS’ would be much easier to process in the two or three seconds you have when you arrive at the entrance, both the North and South entrances are a sensory overload of signs, barriers and three lanes of traffic merging into one so the drivers focus is all over the place. Given the fairly consistent monthly levels (6000 -8000 PCNs) for the same contravention there must be some ambiguity as surely not many of those can be repeat offenders.

This is a long rambling explanation to what really is a very simple question – I was quite clearly in the tunnel with a van that contravenes the restriction but given the unusually low weight restriction which all but the smallest ‘car vans’ will fall foul of, the fact that the  I was driving a vehicle that I don’t regularly drive from a hire company who don’t put any of the vehicle dimensions or weights in the vehicle data on their app - is being fined £160 for two journeys plus two £30 admin fees excessive given the lack of ‘simple’ signage on the tunnel approaches so is there any point in challenging one of the PCNs to reduce the costs? This could all be academic anyway as it looks like ZipCar may have paid already if I’ve understood their email correctly.

I have scans of the PCNs which ZipCar have emailed me but it seemed pointless sending them unless someone thinks an appeal is worthwhile.


« Last Edit: January 23, 2025, 09:39:23 pm by MJBucks »

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Incandescent

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Sorry, but if ZipCar have paid up and off-charged you it is game over. I think only car-derived vans are allowed into the tunnel as they usually meet the size and weight restrictions.

DrivingLunatic

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I just registered to say that if Zipcar have paid the charge on your account it is game over from the point of view of contesting the ticket with Southwark BUT! it is NOT game over from the point of view of contesting that you owe the money to zipcar! Depending on how far you want to push this you have the ability to file a chargeback (which is free and completely risk free) and even a small claims court claim against Zipcar and (if you paid by credit card, your bank) (but this is not free and there is a small risk of a costs order of up to a few hundred pounds if you lose):

- Zipcar will have auto-charged your credit/debit card for the fine PLUS an admin fee. You can file a chargeback claim with your bank to get that money refunded on the basis that (i) you didn't agree to pay this extra money but Zipcar have deprived you of the ability to file representations against the ticket on the basis of their t's and c's (which are unfair and in breach of consumer protection regulations) and (ii) Zipcar have imposed an extra admin fee on top which is not proportionate to the actual costs they incurred paying the ticket (the true cost is zero, or pennies). Filing this claim costs zero and has a reasonable chance of working. NB There are different rules depending on whether you paid with debit or credit card and different banks handle these complaints in different ways so you need to google this a bit before proceeding to give you the best chance of success.

- Even if you lose the chargeback claim you could potentially issue a small claims court claim against Zipcar on the basis that their T&C's are unfair in that they deprive you of any ability to contest tickets (and, I believe, Zipcar could simply have passed the ticket onto you rather than just voluntarily paying up). This seems a bit riskier in that you did commit the contravention and your representations were (I presume) fairly unlikely to succeed and if you lose you risk paying zipcar a bit more in court costs & you wouldn't get your claim fee back.

- If you paid zipcar with a credit card you can also sue your BANK in the small claims court as they're jointly liable with zipcar (assuming the amounts involved are over £100). This claim could be on the same basis as if you sued zipcar and is less risky as generally banks can't be arsed to defend tiny claims so will either fold immediately or may initially defend the claim but then agree to settle shortly before the hearing. This is not completely risk free either, because in principle if they defend & win and you're found to have acted unreasonably you could also pay costs (but in practice, I would think this is very unlikely). Note also that issuing a small claim costs money (which you get back if you win) and is a bit of a faff.

I am always in favour of aggro so personally I would issue a chargeback & then if needed sue the bank (as an easier target than zipcar) but if you just want an easy life, just give the chargeback a try (since it's risk free & free to do, apart from time invested). If you do go the court claim route this forum may help or you could also try the Consumer Action Group chaps a try (they don't do parking so far as I know but they do help with consumer small claims court claims).
« Last Edit: January 24, 2025, 10:50:12 am by DrivingLunatic »

H C Andersen

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OP, why not post the email/letter from ZipCar first. And then confirm whether you have been charged, and if so how, or just invoiced.

MJBucks

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Thanks for the prompt responses - I'd half expected my post to disappear off into the tumbleweed! I contacted ZipCar on the day I received the emails from them notifying me of the charges to ask why the PCN wasn't just forwarded onto me as per the information on their website, I am awaiting a response from their 'violations' department - once I receive it I will post it here. The account shows the two £80 charges along with the £30 admin fees and they have appeared as two extra charges on my credit card - but they could be a holding charge.
Below are the details from their website

« Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 04:46:39 pm by MJBucks »

MJBucks

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Email from ZipCar plus the two scans of the PCNs they emailed me - they only sent the first page of each PCN






« Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 04:42:34 pm by MJBucks »

Incandescent

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Their paragraph "Can I dispute it" is flawed, because it only deals with PCNs received at the roadside. All other PCNs are sent by post to the vehicle owner, so you never get the PCN. SO they then just pay it, add on £30 and charge you. You never get the opportunity to dispute the PCN

MJBucks

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ZipCar violations have finally replied - they obviously paid up straight away without making any effort to forward the PCNs onto me so I shall pursue the chargeback with my credit card provider in the first instance.
The ZipCar reply is below
« Last Edit: February 04, 2025, 09:49:18 pm by MJBucks »