3. Contravention 21 - Haringey - bay suspended when already parked in it
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Contravention 21 - Haringey - bay suspended when already parked in it
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Hi everyone, any and all advice much appreciated - thank you in advance.

I live on Green Lanes, N4, and have a residents parking permit. As I live on the main road, there's a bus lane outside the flat so I have to park away from the house. I often park on an opposite road where I can see the car in the distance from the flat front window, but crucially it's too far away to see any street signs. I cycle to work, and have no need to walk up this road (Umfreville road) for any other purpose than to collect my car. I use it about once a month, usually to drive out of London.

I parked my car on Umfreville road after returning to london from the new year holiday on 4.1.26. I did not use my car again for 6 weeks, and when I went to pick it up to drive out of London again - I had a PCN. The council had suspended the bay for a single day on 21.1.26, fined me for being parked in the space, and then un-suspended the bay. I found out three weeks later on February 13th - obviously too late to pay the cheaper fine of £80. The suspension signs were (obviously) not displayed when I parked.

I informally appealed, and was predictably rejected. Rejection letter is linked here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1IKNXMT3MM4Na0ENWU-OurILp4gnpUDS9?usp=sharing

Google maps location :
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jzM1xULYvDCLzgNR8

There's no question about it - the bay was suspended, and I was parked in it. HOWEVER I have several issues with the application of this supposed "law":

1) The council quite happily take your money for the residents permit, but ***do not tell you*** at any point during that process of signing that your permit can be revoked / overwritten by a bloke with a magic yellow sign at literally any point in time. 

2) The council claim it is your responsibility to check the bay your car is parked in is not suspended *every single day* - they said this multiple times in their rejection letter. Even if you lived away from a main road and could park outside your front door, this is impossible and also unenforceable - what if you need to travel on business (I do frequently), visit family (on the train), or even just go on holiday ? The council it seems are only obligated to display signs of a suspension 3 days in advance, and do not make any other attempt to contact the owners of the vehicles - despite having all of our addresses/ emails / phone numbers (required to have a resident permit in the first place). This means taking ANY trip out of London without your vehicle that lasts more than four days risks getting a PCN, which is insane when you've paid for a residents permit!
Living on a main road with a bus lane, and having to park away from the flat only compounds this problem.

3) If I had been out the country at the time - I feel appealing and showing evidence of my absence (ie plane tickets) may have been successful, but logically, there is no difference between being a) in France for a week and b) in your flat but not walking past your car...?

I have been served a notice to owner dated 4.3.26 and am trying to decide whether to appeal it or just give up and pay the £160 (I have two weeks left to do so)

I have found one or two examples of the London tribunals looking favourably on this sort of situation:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/wandsworth-code-21-parked-in-suspended-bay-parking-bay-on-buttermere-drive-sw15/

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-S6ZiKypHfMtuH-52O6jN3_c50c0tBoN/view

But what do you think? Is this worth an appeal to common sense, or a lost cause ?

Thank you very much
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:25:31 pm by blueboar »
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Re: Contravention 21 - Haringey - bay suspended when already parked in it
« Reply #1 on: »
If you've got the NtO, then there is no point in paying it.

Submit reps on the basis you were parked legally when they suspended the bay, and were out of the country when the suspension was announced by the placement of a suspension sign, otherwise you would have moved your car. If they reject and also do not re-offer the discount, then it becomes an absolute no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals, as the penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs. And, of course, if you win you pay nothing.

Of course if they re-offer the discount, you can decide whether to pay it or take the 'double-or-quits' gamble.

It is unwise to leave one's car parked on-street in London without checking it for suspensions. Councils earn shedloads of money from PCN penalties, so much in fact, that they could well afford to email permit holders about forthcoming suspensions.  So why to they not do this ? Well, it is not a statutory duty, and, of course, they keep all the penalty money, so why do something that might reduce that.
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Re: Contravention 21 - Haringey - bay suspended when already parked in it
« Reply #2 on: »
As I read the cases in the link, it is clear that each case turns on its own facts: the common ground being adequacy of notice.

Extracting the facts from the council's response shows that they claim the advance warning notice was erected at 11.01 on 15th January for a suspension which came into effect less than 6 days later at 0800(subject to seeing the wording) on 21st.

Have you looked on the council's website for their policy as regards advance notices?

Where was your car relative to where the sign was placed?

Did the sign have 3 sides, a front and 'wings'?

What is the precise wording of the sign as regards locations?

I would suggest that you reorientate your approach and look at this as a straightforward suspension: IMO your focus on being away for an extended period causes the analysis to miss standard steps.
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Re: Contravention 21 - Haringey - bay suspended when already parked in it
« Reply #3 on: »
Thank you very much for your replies.

In the pictures of my car that the council provided, the yellow sign is *not* next to my car but further up the road - they attach them to the lampposts, and the nearest lamppost here is about 3 cars (~15m) up the road. Even though the bay I was in was indeed suspended, there is no sign pictured directly next to my car. The wording of the sign does clearly show the list of addresses outside which the bays are suspended (it was quite a long list) - I was parked outside house 92, which was suspended. However the nearest sign was outside house 86.

It looks like the sign had at least a front and a side, but the pictures are quite grainy and I obviously never saw the sign in person.
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Re: Contravention 21 - Haringey - bay suspended when already parked in it
« Reply #4 on: »
It looks like the sign had at least a front and a side, but the pictures are quite grainy and I obviously never saw the sign in person.

My point is not that you didn't see the sign but whether had you parked there after 15th the sign was clear enough to have been noticed anyway. I can't see their letter and the embedded photos clearly enough to say, but if this is the best that they could put in front of an adjudicator, what would they see?

Can I leave it to you to research the council's policy for placing suspension signs.
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Re: Contravention 21 - Haringey - bay suspended when already parked in it
« Reply #5 on: »
Ahhhh, I understand your argument. This might have some legs.

Unfortunately the Haringey Council guidelines say absolutely nothing about sign placement other than "three days in advance" - there's nothing about position of signs, or quantity of signs.

Section 3.15 here:
https://haringey.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-10/haringey-enforcement-code-of-practice.pdf
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Re: Contravention 21 - Haringey - bay suspended when already parked in it
« Reply #6 on: »
I can't see how you can use the sign as you've shot yourself in the foot by conceding you hadn't checked on the car for weeks?

But some adjudicators will help out by looking at the evidence afresh.

Anyway the next stage is the NTO - is your logbook up to date?

You can at least hope to recover the discount.
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Re: Contravention 21 - Haringey - bay suspended when already parked in it
« Reply #7 on: »
Hi stamfordman, thanks for your reply. Yes, you may well be right - the honest reason I did not "walk to my car and check it" during this period however is that I can literally see the car where it was parked from my front room, so then consequently didn't feel the need to walk over the main road and up the side street to said car to check on it.

What I could *not* see from my window however, was the yellow sign, which was several car-lengths further up the road... and so began the problem. If there was a yellow sign right next to my car however, I'm pretty certain I would've seen it, but as it was further up the road, I couldn't see it from the flat.

To be honest if I had gone over and walked up and down that street, I would've seen the signs - but the point is that I could a) see the car from my flat so didn't feel a need to check on it for "safety of the vehicle or anything b) honestly just didn't know that I needed to check for bay suspensions in the first place - so the two combined meant that I didn't return to the vehicle.

I see the most likely legal ground for appeal here will be on the visibility of signage, but I'm so frustrated by this whole proceeding. How can the council reasonably expect people to get a "car sitter" (like a cat sitter...) when they for example go on holiday - it literally says on their website that you should do this. It's one thing getting someone to check on your car, but asking them to DRIVE IT if a bay suspension occurs in your absence!?

And re the logbook - yes the v5c is up to date, the car is registered at this address and I am its owner.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:32:03 pm by blueboar »
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