3. Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
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Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
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Was about to pay a 47J (Stopped on a restricted bust stop or stand) - I honestly didn't know someone couldn't get out of the car even when there's nothing around.

But here's an interesting one. There are CCTV signs up. But on the bus stop itself, the clearway sign is so bleached from the sun that it's almost white, not yellow, and the red and blue "no stopping" sign is completely gone.

Is this a decent grounds to appeal?

https://imgur.com/a/lb36FBk

Cheers!
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Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #1 on: »
I cannot open the file but do know the location. Does the PCN state exactly which bus stop? Please give me the PCN and VRM details to check their website. This has serious issues at present.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #2 on: »
Hi, thanks. PCN is QT09758337
VRM: DV73 KVJ

Alternative link to download the sign, if helpful: https://w-si.link/amyZ2EVbnG4rhJhBX
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Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #3 on: »
Oh, and location is simply given as "VICTORIA ROAD" with the time and date.
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Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #4 on: »
I know it. But does the driver? We need to see the PCN please.

Website:

Click your reason or search for it below

Picking up/dropping off passenger

Was stationary, not parked

Vehicle broke down

Was loading/unloading

Nowhere to park

Search all reasons – use keyword(s) such as pay and display

*******

This is useless information. When I see the PCN I will enter the correct statutory grounds and check the results. Do not pay it. Also, RBK are removing their chatbox from October 1st. Off to Surbiton now.


« Last Edit: September 29, 2024, 02:36:05 pm by Hippocrates »
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on September 29, 2024, 02:31:06 pm
I know it. But does the driver? We need to see the PCN please.

Both PCN pages uploaded here:
https://imgur.com/a/ma6tEQe

Cheers.
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Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #6 on: »
I see no page with the statutory grounds.

However:

Go online; skip chatbox; do not choose a reason and go to the next page

I make these formal repsrenatations against the PCN..................

1. There are several bus stops on Victoria Road. Therefore, the locus as given on the PCN is inexact.

2. There is no upright signage in the evidence shown.

3. Yours website does not show any statutory grounds, only those which can be only described as mitigation. The YTribunal has already found your website to be failing in this regard.

4. I put you to strict proof that the camera at this location has the correct approval certificate from the VCA. If it does not, then the evidence is inadmissible.

In light of the above, please cancel the PCN.

******

Take screenshots. Also of this which in my view is prejudicial:

Picking up/dropping off passenger

We don't usually cancel Penalty Charges for this reason.

Although there are situations where you are allowed to stop to pick up or drop off a passenger, the place where you stopped does not allow this. This is because it is a place where it is especially important for traffic to flow freely and safely.
 Select this reason to use it in your challenge
« Last Edit: September 29, 2024, 06:57:15 pm by Hippocrates »
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
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Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #7 on: »
Many thanks, I'll fire that in now.
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Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #8 on: »
Appeal has been rejected:
https://imgur.com/a/GAzHXCT

Frustratingly, but not unexpectedly, they don't address several of the points raised in the appeal.

I know there's no guarantee, but is there a reasonable chance of winning at tribunal? And if so, what should I do next?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #9 on: »
A far as I can see, the only appeal with any crdeibility is that of Hippocrates. This is a collateral challenge based on their representations pages on their website not showing correct information, thus misleading an appellant. So wait for "Hippo" to comment, but don't miss the deadline if you're minded to pay.
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Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #10 on: »
Tribunal time.
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 20, 2024, 07:51:46 pm
Tribunal time.
"crdeibility"
I really must check my spelling before I post !
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Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #12 on: »
I will get back later.  PM sent.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2024, 08:38:15 pm by Hippocrates »
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #13 on: »
Sorry for the delay.

1. Failure to consider: good odds.

2. Website now changed as APCOA have taken over. Odds: 50/50 plus since it still includes wholly irrelevant grounds.

My balanced advice e mailed just now.  If this were mine, I would defend the pass!

Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 30, 2024, 10:44:59 am
Sorry for the delay.

1. Failure to consider: good odds.

2. Website now changed as APCOA have taken over. Odds: 50/50 plus since it still includes wholly irrelevant grounds.

My balanced advice e mailed just now.  If this were mine, I would defend the pass!

PCN issued under the TMA. Rejection issued under the Moving Traffic Act.  ::)
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
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