3. Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
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Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
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Hi All :)

I appreciate any help on this.

Please see the PCN: Here

Image of offence: Here

Video: Here

Map location: Here

I didn't notice the sign at all  :'( ; the tree definitely obstructed it. Do I have a case to appeal, or should I pay the fine?

Also found this https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/no-left-turn-pedestrian-area-obstructed-by-hedge/msg19305/#msg19305 but not sure what the outcome of this was at the end.

Hopefully, I did this post right. Do let me know if I can do anything better.

P.S. The link to Mumsnet in the rules made my day!  ;D
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Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #1 on: »
There is an advance sign but the main signs are so badly positioned when turning left you could still win. We need to check the tribunal.
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Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks, @stamfordman. Oh, I didn't even see the one before, I didn't go that far behind on Google Maps. Would the advance sign mean I don't have a leg to stand on?

Do you know where I can search for Tribunals? Is there a link or database? I'm happy to rummage through to find the outcome if there is one.

Thanks again for your reply :)
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Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #3 on: »
First things first: access their website AS IF to challenge and screenshot the page(s) and report back.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #4 on: »
Hi @Hippocrates,

Here are the screenshots requested.

Part 1

Part 2

Let me know if you need anything else and I appreciate the help.
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Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #5 on: »
My wife has the exact same fine 2 days later. She also noticed that the sign is obscured by trees but also too high to actually see upon entry from the drivers side. I know Croydon Council is broke but this is daft. Adding to that even if you were to see it upon entry the cars parked up on the side makes it impossible to turn around anyway so they get you regardless! Keep us posted on your outcome and we shall do the same (although we have not paid the fine yet as we are drafting a response)
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Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: Mazo on November 08, 2024, 01:16:59 pm
Hi @Hippocrates,

Here are the screenshots requested.

Part 1

Part 2

Let me know if you need anything else and I appreciate the help.

Nope: first page which is BS:

Click your reason or search for it below
I wasn't aware of the rules
I was picking up/dropping off a passenger
it was an emergency
my satnav misdirected me
using cameras to catch drivers isn't fair
this is a hire car - the hirer should pay
Search all reasons
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #7 on: »
Thanks @Hippocrates,

the reason is My satnav misdirected me.

But I can't see that as an option at all. Sorry, I'm I missing something? How do I get the option to show up?
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Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: Mazo on November 10, 2024, 12:26:48 am
Thanks @Hippocrates,

the reason is My satnav misdirected me.

But I can't see that as an option at all. Sorry, I'm I missing something? How do I get the option to show up?
This is my point: the website is not fit for purpose.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #9 on: »
but not sure what the outcome of this was at the end.

It was refused.

https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:70::INITIALISE::70:P70_CAS_REFNO,P70_PCN_REFNO,P70_RETURN_PAGE,P70_AST_CODE:1619917,3010130,60,APPEAL&cs=3ZzHATlJ9inivHPjwSXl0DGnKamzZoCfzRUTZwRcZRpEb9L6g1_WCu9XoyQr3Whe-tMWHLJrRJEz135mYzskwUQ

The adjudicator's reasoning was clear.

For vehicles turning left, reading, learning and inwardly digesting the signs' wording is impossible and advance warning is required.

But it's there and GSV from 6 months ago shows that it's clear and not obstructed by anything.

OP, IMO you would not succeed with any argument related to the signs and would need to look for technical/procedural arguments.
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Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #10 on: »
@HCAnderson - Yr link does not wotk - case number?
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Re: Croydon, PCN code 53J Pedestrian Zone, Warrington Rd by Epsom Rd
« Reply #11 on: »

2240167192
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