3. Southwark Council PCN
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Southwark Council PCN
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Hello All, Received two PCNs from Southwark council for running through an apparent NO Entry sign for motor vehicles on the same place one week apart.
The NO Entry sign has timed restriction and by looking at the sign it was perceived that entry was not within the timed restrictions.
However I am still in confusion why the ticket has been issued because it seems that entry was outside the restricted time unless I am reading it all wrong!!

Can anyone kindly help if there are any grounds for appeal? Much appreciate all the help, thanks.

Below is a link of the location

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XpjUkWeDaHjfpTkd8

I am also attaching the picture of NO Entry sign, no sure what am I reading wrong!
Sign says no entry between 7am - 10 am
and entry was at midnight!!

PCN:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pa4LxTmhq2nPTkhWHOEyIG3gIsa1QJ8J/view
NO Entry:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cNfSogTSvJ21T5GzolQFWItd66JDwzZC/view

Many thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2024, 08:26:34 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #1 on: »
I would read that as no entry at all times, but entry for loading is allowed 7-10am, so midnight would appear to be in contravention. Others may find issues in the PCN, but docs are private.
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Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #2 on: »
Apologies I have reviewed the PCN link and it should work now!
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Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #3 on: »
I would say the advance sign is misleading as there is no hint of a traffic restriction on it, for a left turn.
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Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #4 on: »
So that might be a defence for an appeal?
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Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: nature_boy on June 21, 2024, 06:00:01 pm
Apologies I have reviewed the PCN link and it should work now!
We need both sides please or all sides.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: nature_boy on June 21, 2024, 07:29:20 pm
So that might be a defence for an appeal?
At the restriction is only seen once the turn is made, therefore almost impossible to avoid, I would think it would be a key point in an appeal based on inadequacy of signage.
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Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #7 on: »
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Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #8 on: »
We also need the VRM and PCN numbers.

I would go onto their website and screenshot all the grounds available and/or copy and paste and go further as if to challenge. There may well be errors.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #9 on: »
Thanks
PCN: JK11601870
PCN: JK11577109
VRM: FP19XGM

Much appreciate your feedback thanks
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Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #10 on: »
It is not a 'No Entry', it's a prohibition on motor vehicles AKA flying motorbike.

The sign means that at the time at issue you cannot go left or right, which seems odd on the face of it, until you go back, specifically to here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/e7xEoYbBjTgmxGwK8?g_st=ic

You misread at least 2 advance signs and IMO they would fatally undermine any defence based upon the location of the actual signs in Rye Lane.

How did you miss these advance signs?  Or did you enter Hanover from Cerise which gives access only to the car park, in which case you have to turn right from Cerise, not left?
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Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #11 on: »
  • I didn't see/understand the signs
    Your PCN was issued for contravention 52: disobeying a sign that prohibits certain types of vehicle, for example motorcycles, goods vehicles, all motor vehicles or a combination of these. The sign is round, white and has a red border. It pictures the type of vehicle that is prohibited or, if all vehicles are prohibited, it explains this using words instead of pictures.

    We do not normally cancel a PCN for this reason.
    It is unfortunate that you were unfamiliar with the rules that were in force. However, it is still up to drivers to be aware of signs and road markings and obey them.

  • the signs/markings were faulty
    If you let us know why you believe the signs or markings were faulty, we will reconsider your case and then reply to you. To let us know, click Continue.

  • this is a hire car - the hirer should pay
    We will reconsider your case if you upload the hire agreement. To do this, click Continue.
    Among other things, we will check that:

    • the PCN was given during the hire period;
    • the hire agreement shows the hirer's name and address and the vehicle registration; and
    • the hirer has signed a statement of liability for PCNs.

  • the fine is so expensive
    The charges for PCNs are set by central government, not by us. They are set at high levels to encourage drivers to obey the parking and traffic rules and so increase traffic flow and safety. Also, to make the system fairer, the less serious contraventions (such as overstaying in a Pay & Display bay) now carry a lower charge than the more serious contraventions (such as parking on a double yellow line).

  • my car had been stolen
    We will reconsider your case if you upload an insurance or police document about the theft. To do this, click Continue.
    Among other things, we will check:

    • that the document refers to the theft of the vehicle; and
    • that the PCN was given while the vehicle was not in your possession.

Search all reasons
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #12 on: »
Thanks for all feedback.
It was my bad, yes I misread the signs thinking outside of that time the car could go in. Thinking it was one of those timed restrictions!
Similar another entry was made while the same sign was there about a couple of months ago, and nothing happened, that kind of was confusing enough to think there was no issues entering again!!
So I guess the bottom line now is to pay and move on, thanks!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2024, 02:58:03 pm by nature_boy »
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Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #13 on: »
If you care to read what I have put in the above post.


So I guess the bottom line now is to pay and move on, thanks!

If you pay both now you will be joining The Mugged Club. There is a technical "appeal" for both actually.  Your money, your choice.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2024, 09:04:34 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Southwark Council PCN
« Reply #14 on: »
I guess understanding things in wrong order is my thing 🤪
Reading the replies I thought there is no grounds for appeal!
Pls let me what technical grounds I need to adopt/explore to appeal, off course don’t want my hard earned money to be wasted like this!
Thanks in advance.
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