3. Southwark, code 19s parked in a shared use bay with invalid permit, Spa Road / Bermondsey
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Southwark, code 19s parked in a shared use bay with invalid permit, Spa Road / Bermondsey
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Hello all,

First time poster here - thank you for maintaining this wonderful community of expert volunteers! Thought this should be an open-and-shut case, but wanted a sanity check just in case.

I have two valid parking sessions for the car (the second was necessary because the vet was busy with another patient), from 13:11 to 13:41, and 13:52 to 14:22 made indoors in the consultation room once I knew we aren't making it out by the end of the grace period.

Parking ticket states time of contravention as 13:53 (which at this time I have proof of a valid parking session), and first observed time of contravention as 13:50 (which is still within the 10 minute grace period for the first session). Council evidence, not included here for brevity, includes 7 pictures from 13:52 to 13:53. Should I expect to have to fight the council once I submit evidence, and is submitting just the second valid session from 13:52 to 14:22 the best and easiest way to get the ticket dismissed?

Location here;
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Keen to get this sorted before the NtO phase as it's a rental and I'll lose the right to appeal once the rental car company pay up.

Thank you in advance for your help!!

Cheers,
HolyMole

PCN - Southwark Council

Permit 1

Permit 2
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:20:21 pm by holymole »
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Re: Southwark, code 19s parked in a shared use bay with invalid permit, Spa Road / Bermondsey
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As far as I can see, the 10 minute grace period covers you for the gap, and you can submit reps on that basis. 

However, it being a hire car complicates matters, because if you submit an informal challenge, it will be rejected. London councils reject >95% of all informal challenges, because they know that most people then just cough-up to get the discount. So assuming your challenge is rejected, what will the hire company do when they get the NtO ? No doubt they'll just pay it and off-charge it to you  plus an "admin" fee. So unless you can get the hire company to name you as the hirer on the day of the alleged contravention, you'll still end up paying.

You need to check with the hire company what they do when receiving NtOs, and also postal PCNs. At the moment, you have no legal standing in the enforcement process.
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Re: Southwark, code 19s parked in a shared use bay with invalid permit, Spa Road / Bermondsey
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Thanks Incandescent; indeed it being a hire limits my options. The hire company auto settles all invoices and tag on their own surcharge, scummy behaviour :(

To increase the chance of them accepting my informal rep at the first go is it easier to just show the second parking session 13:52 to 14:22 as proof of having a valid permit at the time of contravention (13:53) stated on the PCN?

Thank you!
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Re: Southwark, code 19s parked in a shared use bay with invalid permit, Spa Road / Bermondsey
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: holymole on Yesterday at 11:59:50 pm
Thanks Incandescent; indeed it being a hire limits my options. The hire company auto settles all invoices and tag on their own surcharge, scummy behaviour :(

To increase the chance of them accepting my informal reps at the first go is it easier to just show the second parking session 13:52 to 14:22 as proof of having a valid permit at the time of contravention (13:53) stated on the PCN?

Thank you!
I'm afraid you must accept that informal challenges are invariably rejected. London councils ruthlessly game the system to maximise income, so whatever you submit will invariably be rejected. Councils know all about the hire and lease car trap that a lot of drivers are in. Of  course your points are valid but will only be seriously considered at the Notice to Owner stage. Yes, it's a scam, but so far no politician seems willing to confront the councils over it.

Rough and ready calculations on PCNs served in London, and knowing 95% are paid up, shows that well over £600 million is being "earned" by London councils and also TfL.

Anyway, despite the above, submit your reps and make them do at least some work for their ill-gotten gains
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Re: Southwark, code 19s parked in a shared use bay with invalid permit, Spa Road / Bermondsey
« Reply #4 on: »
Echo the sentiment; I will post an update here once they reply to my reps. Thanks again!
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Re: Southwark, code 19s parked in a shared use bay with invalid permit, Spa Road / Bermondsey
« Reply #5 on: »
The PCN was correctly issued after the expiry of the 10 minute grace period.

So the key is that you bought new parking rights a minute before the issue of the PCN (the CEO presumably wouldn't have known that unless they'd rechecked their system).

This must be stated upfront to increase chances of a first time cancellation.

You can also say the second session started at the point the 10 min grace from the previous session expired.

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