Author Topic: Sign not clear  (Read 265 times)

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SLBUNP

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Sign not clear
« on: November 15, 2023, 10:00:32 pm »
Hello,

I got this fine recently and wanted to know if I have a defense. I feel it's a very bad road sign.

As you can see from the picture, there's a taxi in front blocking the flower tub, so it would be difficult for me to see the road sign until I got closer to see the one on the right.
It was more like trying to catch the driver out than being helpful with the road sign like a no entry. It takes time to process this particular road sign.

Aos, It was getting dark, and high-rise buildings on both sides and road signs were not so clear.

https://tinypic.host/image/n4zE1


Google street map:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5306928,-0....i8192?entry=ttu

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Incandescent

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2023, 11:09:12 pm »
There are the two "Flying Motorbike" signs clearly visible. These would have been visible even with the taxi there. In addition to the two signs, the council have done more than the regulations require by also adding in a large flower tub barring your progress with the same sign. Sorry to say it, buy I cannot see anything at all that would form the basis for a credible appeal at London Tribunals unless the PCN contains a fatal error of content. Clearly you didn't know what the signs meant. They are now in use all over London !  They are used instead of No Entry signs because some classes of traffic are allowed to pass, like buses.

Please post all the other PCN pages so we can check them for errors.  PCN errors have won many appeals in the past, although you'd have to go to London Tribunals, as councils almost never admit error.

SLBUNP

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2023, 11:45:05 am »
If I passed my test in mid 90's and these are new signs, would that be an excuse, and if the driver had a medical issue like ADHD, takes time to process information? 

Below are the pages:


Page 2:   https://postimg.cc/f3qwhNrK

Page 3:  https://postimg.cc/GHDJ83P4

Page 4:  https://postimg.cc/JypbVs82

Incandescent

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2023, 12:02:52 pm »
Quote
If I passed my test in mid 90's and these are new signs, would that be an excuse, and if the driver had a medical issue like ADHD, takes time to process information?
On the first point, no, and on the second point, if the ADHD is so severe as to cause traffic signs to be passed, then the question is, is the driver fit to drive ? Would the driver pass a red traffic light, or a No Entry sign,  for instance ?

There is nothing at all to stop you submitting reps on the above basis, but they are unlikely to succeed. Of course the council may not respond within the 56 days, so you'd win by default.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2023, 12:06:39 pm by Incandescent »

666

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2023, 12:08:11 pm »
If I passed my test in mid 90's and these are new signs, would that be an excuse, and if the driver had a medical issue like ADHD, takes time to process information? 

Below are the pages:


Page 2:  https://postimg.cc/f3qwhNrK

Page 3:  https://postimg.cc/GHDJ83P4

Page 4:  https://postimg.cc/JypbVs82

1. The 'flying motorbike' signs are not new: they've been round for decades.

2. Even if they hadn't been around when you passed, you are expected to be aware of changes in the Highway Code and the law.

3. Have you notified the DVLA of your ADHD, as the law requires?

SLBUNP

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2023, 01:18:02 pm »
If I passed my test in mid 90's and these are new signs, would that be an excuse, and if the driver had a medical issue like ADHD, takes time to process information? 

Below are the pages:


Page 2:  https://postimg.cc/f3qwhNrK

Page 3:  https://postimg.cc/GHDJ83P4

Page 4:  https://postimg.cc/JypbVs82

1. The 'flying motorbike' signs are not new: they've been round for decades.

2. Even if they hadn't been around when you passed, you are expected to be aware of changes in the Highway Code and the law.

3. Have you notified the DVLA of your ADHD, as the law requires?

Are there any errors on the PCN?

Also, how can I find out if there's Traffic order on the road signs?

Thank you

Sudokuqueen

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2023, 06:34:28 pm »
Quote
If I passed my test in mid 90's and these are new signs, would that be an excuse, and if the driver had a medical issue like ADHD, takes time to process information?
On the first point, no, and on the second point, if the ADHD is so severe as to cause traffic signs to be passed, then the question is, is the driver fit to drive ? Would the driver pass a red traffic light, or a No Entry sign,  for instance ?

There is nothing at all to stop you submitting reps on the above basis, but they are unlikely to succeed. Of course the council may not respond within the 56 days, so you'd win by default.
ADHD is not a delay in processing information.

ManxTom

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2023, 12:11:46 am »
Quote
If I passed my test in mid 90's and these are new signs, would that be an excuse, and if the driver had a medical issue like ADHD, takes time to process information?
On the first point, no, and on the second point, if the ADHD is so severe as to cause traffic signs to be passed, then the question is, is the driver fit to drive ? Would the driver pass a red traffic light, or a No Entry sign,  for instance ?

There is nothing at all to stop you submitting reps on the above basis, but they are unlikely to succeed. Of course the council may not respond within the 56 days, so you'd win by default.
ADHD is not a delay in processing information.

I suspect that English might not be the OP's native language and that they might be unintentionally trying to refer to "inattention" rather than to a "delay in processing informationn".

Whether they suffer from ADHD and whether their GP can confirm such a diagnosis - I don't know...

slapdash

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2023, 11:30:27 am »

3. Have you notified the DVLA of your ADHD, as the law requires?

The notification requirement is not "I have ADHD, I must notify".

Notification is only required if the condition or its treatment affects ability to drive (yes, it's wooly).

H C Andersen

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2023, 12:46:22 pm »

A vehicle was in the way, you saw the sign late an d had difficulty processing its meaning, it was dark etc.

Have you viewed the CCTV?

We can't, you've obscured the PCN no. and VRM. If you can link the CCTV to here, fine, otherwise we need to see the details.


cp8759

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2023, 12:29:22 am »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

SLBUNP

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2023, 08:05:12 am »
Here are the details to watch the video:

https://parkingdisputes.hackney.gov.uk/pcnonline/index.php

PCN:  QZ15140365

Reg: N121 KAD

SLBUNP

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2023, 10:05:48 pm »
Did you have access to the video?

slapdash

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2023, 10:26:19 am »
Maybe the attached video will play.


cp8759

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Re: Sign not clear
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2023, 10:53:42 pm »
Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwDoDhq8S0A

We should use the link strategy, explained here.

We obviously have some relevant evidence we can use, i.e. the annotated street view images you've posted above.

Type up a draft and put it on here and I'll tidy it up for you and sort out the links to put in the representation.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2023, 10:55:28 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order