3. Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
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Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
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Hello, this is a repost from the old forms, can someone please advice on this PCN.

There is a football stadium near by (about 1mile), sign says event days parking times are different. It was a Sunday and driver doesn't live in the area so checked if there were any games for the local team, assumed not, but actually there was an event (NFL game) so hence the error. I am not the driver, but offered to help (driver has lost his father recently and hence visit was to a community centre near by). Is there anything that can be done as was a genuine mistake.

Ticket:





PCN Online images:


Signage:


Some relevant links:

Rycroft Way - Google Maps
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5E5ssLkHR8WdA3wn9

Tottenham Event Day CPZ | Haringey Council
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/parking/controlled-parking-zones-cpzs/tottenham-event-day-cpz

Local | New Stadium | Tottenham Hotspur
https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/the-stadium/local/
« Last Edit: October 12, 2023, 12:00:01 am by cp8759 »
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #1 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on October 11, 2023, 01:00:40 am
As well as the sign shown, there should be signs at all entrances to the Events Zone giving the date of the next event. So if your friend can give us his route to the location we'll have a look.  He could submit reps stating that he never say any sign for the date of the next event.  They'll have to prove they did if it gets to adjudication.

I've asked him and as per this map, he entered from south Tottenham, high road.
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #2 on: »
Access to Rycroft Way is via Chesnut Road (no middle 't' !) : -
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5910871,-0.069554,3a,16.8y,81.95h,95.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBHjrvhN8Fti33iSrI3EmvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu
Note the large sign with the parking restrictions and also, at the bottom, when the next event is. There is no other motor vehicle access to Rycroft Way, it is all one-way streets.

So unless that sign did not have the date of the next event, your friend looks bang-to-rights.
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #3 on: »
Please give us the number plate and PCN number so that we can do some basic checks. In the meantime I'll find out if the council can prove what sign was displayed at the location identified by Incandescent.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 12, 2023, 12:09:29 am
Please give us the number plate and PCN number so that we can do some basic checks. In the meantime I'll find out if the council can prove what sign was displayed at the location identified by Incandescent.

Hi, sorry for the late reply. PCN is ZN09554826, REG: EK54WCD

I spoke to the driver, and he's unsure if such a sign was there. I guess if nothing is possible I can informally challenge on the basis of compassion due to the circumstances of the driver.
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #5 on: »
It could take until 6 November for me to get the photos from the council, so in the meantime it's worth putting something in even if just to preserve the discount.

What compassionate grounds did you have in mind? Please put a draft of what you want to send on here for review.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 14, 2023, 11:52:22 am
It could take until 6 November for me to get the photos from the council, so in the meantime it's worth putting something in even if just to preserve the discount.

What compassionate grounds did you have in mind? Please put a draft of what you want to send on here for review.

Thanks. I'll help him make an informal challenge in a day or two. I wanted to write something up stating he did not see the sign while entering and the visit was related to bereaving his recent loss of his father (he was visiting a community centre to meet people who came to give their condolences).

Here is what I have so far, Please can you let me know if there is any errors or if you can improve:

Quote
Hello, I do not live in the area and did not fully understand event days, as it was a Sunday, after parking and attending a local community centre near by I asked whether there was a football match which I was informed the local team was not playing so I assumed there was no event. Unfortunately there was an "NFL" match instead of a normal football match, hence the misinformation and confusion.

I have been informed that there is usually a sign upon entry indicating if there is an event however I did not see this sign and believe this sign was not present.

The purpose of my visit was to meet people coming to pay their condolences to me and my family for our recent loss of our father. My father attended this community centre and we organized to meet here, which was planned in haste. I would kindly like to ask your understanding in this time of bereaving our father, the unexpected circumstances and mitigating the situation.
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #7 on: »
Looks OK to me, but do be aware that heads of council parking departments are chosen on the hardness of their hearts. Granite is the favoured material. (OK only joking !).  Hope you succeed !!
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #8 on: »
Response from the council:

Please find attached photos that show the dates 8,15,23 Oct displayed on the 1st October 2023 and current photo of the sign with the dates still attached taken today 19th October 2023






Has you friend heard back?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 05:15:55 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #9 on: »
Not yet did the informal challenge, should he proceed and I guess cut out the assumption the sign was not there?
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: Savas on October 20, 2023, 01:39:57 pm
Not yet did the informal challenge, should he proceed and I guess cut out the assumption the sign was not there?
Not sure what you mean by "should he proceed", if he's make an informal challenge all he can do is wait for the response.

Of course the other question is whether that sign was adequate, which of course is debatable.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 21, 2023, 02:47:16 pm
Quote from: Savas on October 20, 2023, 01:39:57 pm
Not yet did the informal challenge, should he proceed and I guess cut out the assumption the sign was not there?
Not sure what you mean by "should he proceed", if he's make an informal challenge all he can do is wait for the response.

Of course the other question is whether that sign was adequate, which of course is debatable.

I meant in the sense that if there's nothing wrong with it or further to add or adjust in the writing.

It is kind of small, yes.

Here's what was sent.

Quote
Hello, I do not live in the area and did not fully understand event days, as it was a Sunday after parking and attending a local community centre near by I asked whether there was a football match which I was informed the local team was not playing so I assumed there was no event. Unfortunately there was an "NFL" match instead of a normal football match, hence the misinformation and confusion.

My father has recently passed away and the purpose of my visit was to attend a community centre to meet people coming to pay their condolences for me and my family. My father attended this community centre and we organized to meet here which was planned in haste.

I have been informed that there is usually a sign upon entry indicating if there is an event however I unfortunately missed this sign due to my haste and was unaware where to look for event day information. I would kindly request mitigating the situation and your understanding in this time of bereaving our father, as it was completely unexpected.

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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: Savas on October 21, 2023, 03:29:38 pm
I meant in the sense that if there's nothing wrong with it or further to add or adjust in the writing.
Well if he's already sent it it's a bit late to add anything. At the notice to owner stage, we can look at this again.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #13 on: »
No response as of yet...

What usually happens? I presume a response comes via email and also by post right? Is there anything he should watch out for? I've asked if he received any emails and he has not, nor any post.

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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #14 on: »
Apologies to bump. Can someone explain how this works. It's been about 3 weeks since making an informal challenge and no response. How long do they have?
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