3. Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #15 on: »
There is no limit on responding to informal challenges, but usually anything over 3 months is frowned-upon by the adjudicators.  There is also a limit of 6 month to serve the Notice to Owner, and statutory guidance says if this sort of time is taken, they must have a very good reason.
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #16 on: »
Finally got a respond, unfortunately they've rejected the informal challenge. Very heartless in my opinion, a little surprised too. Anyway, what options are there now? I guess if nothing strong to go by, paying the discounted and being done with this is only choice.



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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #17 on: »
Quote from: Savas on November 17, 2023, 07:56:27 pm
Finally got a respond, unfortunately they've rejected the informal challenge. Very heartless in my opinion, a little surprised too. Anyway, what options are there now? I guess if nothing strong to go by, paying the discounted and being done with this is only choice.
No, that's not how this works. Virtually all informal representations are rejected, because the council knows that 99% of people will just pay, and obviously the council gets to keep the money for itself.

Instead you should wait for the notice to owner, post it up on here as soon as you get it, and we can look at making some proper representations. At the notice to owner stage things tend to get looked up in a bit more depth.

As long as the notice to owner is challenged within 14 days of the date of issue, if the council rejects again they normally extend the discount for a further 14 days, so there is limited risk in carrying on.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #18 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on November 19, 2023, 03:58:37 pm
As long as the notice to owner is challenged within 14 days of the date of issue, if the council rejects again they normally extend the discount for a further 14 days, so there is limited risk in carrying on.

Normally? Is that something the council can feel free to do or not, how does that work?

Guidance on challenging a penalty charge notice | Haringey Council
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/parking/penalty-charge-notice-pcn/challenge-penalty-charge-notice/guidance-challenging-penalty-charge-notice

Says "The formal process of disputing a PCN commences on receipt of a Notice to Owner, which will be sent to the owner of the vehicle not less than 28 days after the PCN was served."

I can see they've given till the 5th dec before the discount runs out, they're supposed to send out the notice to owner out after the 6th dec, so they could send it out after the 6th and I guess they wouldn't allow for the discount? I think if the discount is up to them, then really not really expecting it.

Sorry, the above uploaded links broke.


« Last Edit: November 24, 2023, 05:00:35 pm by Savas »
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #19 on: »
Whilst the councils know that rejecting all informal challenges rakes in the money, as CP8759 eloquently describes, they are also aware that if they don't offer the discount again when rejecting formal reps that for the appellant, it then becomes a no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals. This is because the penalty does not increase, and there are no additional costs for the appellant.  However there are costs for the council because they must prepare an evidence pack, which costs money. So most London councils re-offer the discount.
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #20 on: »
That makes a lot of sense, thanks for clarifying.

I guess I'm wondering whether there's any strength to going to London Tribunals if they did not offer the discount (worse case scenario)? I am not really about to make things worse for him. Is there any strength in this kind of circumstances at London tribunals? The councils mitigating circumstances does not contain this, however being merciful is kind of the point of informal challenges, I thought. Also it's a busy road and turning into that road, that sign seems quite overloaded, with oncoming traffic you really don't have a lot of time to read it all, while looking out for any pedestrians and other vehicles.

Also, I completely forgot to edit my previous post, but there was an error, I can't change it now, although I'm sure most knows anyway, but for clarification they're supposed to send out the notice to owner after 28 days, so that would be after the 6th, not before. I guess it makes sense to offer the discount, unless they got their pack ready already with this.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2023, 05:21:30 pm by Savas »
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #21 on: »
Ultimately no outcome at the tribunal can be guaranteed, there is always an element of risk. The merits of going to the tribunal can be better evaluated at the notice of rejection stage, but often the full picture emerges only after the appeal has been filed, because you only get to see any flaws in the council's case when they file their evidence pack.

They don't prepare evidence packs "just in case", they only compile them after get the a notice of appeal from the tribunal.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #22 on: »
Haringey are routinely slow and mark their files forward by 2 months. If you get rejected and receive a Notice to Owner I have a Pcn wording error we can use. Email me later on with a copy of the Notice to Owner. mrmustard@zoho.com
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I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
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Re: Rycroft Way, HALE (TH) CPZ
« Reply #23 on: »
Riddled with fettering of discretion.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
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