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Resident or private
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I received  ticket in our estate, I have been waiting for years for my permit without success. Anyway signs are not clear at some point it says  PERMIT HOLDER ONLY E-ML, then another sign says PRIVATE PERMIT HOLDER, then another NO PARKING AT ANYTIME. In the past I appealed under the ground that signage was not clear  from a private firm/space, as it does not state the terms even though  I'm getting this PCN from the council.  I don't have copy of my appeal then( few years back in peppipoo) and it would help if you can assist drafting one, thanks

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Maiden+Ln,+London/@51.5424077,-0.1290521,3a,26.1y,47.33h,81.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGZE9NKlzDW1_bQRyHF-6Uw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D8.851569672445365%26panoid%3DGZE9NKlzDW1_bQRyHF-6Uw%26yaw%3D47.328435689931496!7i16384!8i8192!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x48761b10dc1ec161:0x1d38baab1e3a619d!2sMaiden+Ln,+London!3b1!8m2!3d51.5421817!4d-0.1277528!16s%2Fg%2F1v3_24t1!3m5!1s0x48761b10dc1ec161:0x1d38baab1e3a619d!8m2!3d51.5421817!4d-0.1277528!16s%2Fg%2F1v3_24t1?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

this is the location of our street, google drive does not go any further

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« Last Edit: December 07, 2024, 11:24:25 am by Sal71 »
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #1 on: »
The two large signs shown here, are the ones that count. The two small signs have no legal significance, but merely explain in English, the meaning of the large signs.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/86rtbY7jYmq13Mne7

These restrict parking to permits A-ML.  So where have you been parking if you have no permit and how have you avoided getting a PCN until now, as you say you have been waiting for years for a permit. So why within those years have you not been granted one ?

It's very important you tell us all about your parking problem, because getting a PCN cancelled needs a multi-faceted approach. If you've been waiting so long, have you contacted your local councillor about your problem; the officials will just bat away anything you say to them, but councillor enquiries are dealt with more seriously.
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you, i parked where is says E-ML ( looks like resident sign), adjacant to the big sign, I applied for residential permit, was given out of the state, this is where I usually park. Road work made impossible to park on that day and I left it at night within the estate. With regards to Councillors, I will contact them, but I complained to the council, they said I'm on the waiting list...ever since..and I took it to the Ombudsman, they said that there is nothing they can do.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2024, 12:51:34 pm by Sal71 »
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #3 on: »
This is an off-street contravention in an estate car park.

It is at NTO stage - did you challenge the windscreen PCN?

From what you say you have an on-street permit but couldn't use it that day because of road works? There must have been nearby parking surely.





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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #4 on: »
So looking into this it seems Camden has provided you with a specific on-street permit for certain spaces and not a zone permit? 

https://www.camden.gov.uk/documents/20142/4207163/2020+No.+25+-+published+19+March+2020.pdf/12b6cffe-2f31-367a-5e4c-c99acc2b3035?t=1584633563390

« Last Edit: December 07, 2024, 01:31:09 pm by stamfordman »
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #5 on: »
The signs are unauthorised if it's off-street. The CPZ signs in particular are redundant if what lies beyond is not a road, as indeed a car park cannot be a road.(but it can be a 'public place' for other road traffic purposes)

OP, where is the noticeboard which sets out the Ts and Cs of parking in this car park?

The 'controlled zone' sign and the 'permit holders only' signs are prescribed under the Traffic Signs etc. Regs which were made under the ROAD Traffic Regulation Act 1984(the clue is in the title). They are included in the Highway Code and its accompanying publication Know your Traffic Signs. As such, a driver is expected to know what these mean....but when they are used off-street they have NO meaning which you're required to know and act upon. If they have a meaning, including whether a failure to comply could result in a penalty charge, then this mist be stated clearly on one or more visible notices within the area concerned.
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #6 on: »
My reading is that there is an on-street zone by part of the estate and an off-street car park, where the OP was, and they only have a permit for the former.
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #7 on: »
These are the signs within the estate and where I parked. The resident permit I was issued was for C-AN area, outside.

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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #8 on: »
Any ground for appeal ?
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: Sal71 on December 09, 2024, 10:17:04 pm
Any ground for appeal ?
At the moment, I see none, because although you have a permit, it didn't apply to the location where you parked.
However, see what the others say, as HCA suggests the signs are not lawful because where you parked is not a public road, (at least that is my understanding).
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #10 on: »
IMO,

The signs in the photos (Permit Holders) have NO legal effect*.

They are NOT prescribed for use other than on roads.

Where you were is not a road, if it was then the contravention is incorrect.

Unless there is a separate noticeboard which brings to a motorist's attention that these signs convey the meaning that only vehicles with matching valid permits may park then they are redundant.
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #11 on: »
You have been issued with a permit for a big parking zone so so you can't really complain you have nowhere to park on-street.

You can of course point out you've been on a waiting list for an estate parking place as I understand it.

But as said the council says the contravention occurred in an off-street car park. Such car parks are subject to rules about terms and conditions and as we've seen with other estates none seem to posted for people to read at the location.
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #12 on: »
Not looking for a complete appeal being read out, but any further helpful tips would be appreciated.

With regards to why I Parker, well there are road work, major one, to the point they are considering residents to park further away, and on that day, at around 23:00 I couldn't possibly find a spot.
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #13 on: »
 :-\
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Re: Resident or private
« Reply #14 on: »
Managed to get the appeal done
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