Author Topic: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M  (Read 1174 times)

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Hippocrates

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Please send me their response.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

zzzatang

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Please send me their response.

I have not received any response yet. I will definitely share the response with you once I get any.

Hippocrates

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Thanks. Sorry, I misunderstood. So, this means they are at least giving it due care and attention.  ::)
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

zzzatang

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I have now received the NOR from the council.
NOR: https://app.box.com/s/ijc56ggswtshxwrlqx9k62r4lsb367jx

I noticed that the NOR letter is dated 03-Apr-2024. However, the "for Office use only" section of the London Tribunals form (last page of the NOR file) has a NOR date of 02-Apr-2024. Should this also be raised as an issue?

I have also attached a screenshot of the council's PCN page, it now shows 130 GBP as the due amount and shows the status as "Representation Rejected". Previously it was asking me to pay 195 GBP and had the status "Charge Certificate Posted".

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I believe the next step would be to file the online appeal at https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/

Any other suggestions, please?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 02:39:37 am by zzzatang »

Hippocrates

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The NOR statements about the dates are total bolleaux. I will e mail you nowish. Game on I believe.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 02:31:42 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ
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Hippocrates

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Ok. I am still here.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 06:05:00 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

Hippocrates

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So, does anybody have any other ideas how to fight this please?
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

Hippocrates

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NOR

Please note: - your representation was received after the Charge Certificate has been issued, however, the secretary of state allows all local authorities to use their discretion when accepting a late representation, we have on this occasion made the decision to use our discretion and we accepted your late representation. By accepting your late representation did not invalidate the legislative process of a Penalty Charge Notice.

My thoughts

1. All the legislation pertaining to decriminalised traffic enforcement is based around a sequence of actions. Each action must be completed within a specified time limit otherwise there are consequences. Any variation to one of these time limits has a knock-on effect to the subsequent action and it effectively destroys the overall framework of the legislation.

2. Prejudice is irrelevant etc.

3. Vague locus: cases plus

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1959/1.html

Please feel free to chip in.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2024, 10:23:17 pm by cp8759 »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

John U.K.

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A shorter (and less intimidating :)   ) link to the judgment
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1959/1.html

Hippocrates

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All submitted in a most reasonable manner:  it is arguable that.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2024, 12:05:55 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

Hippocrates

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A shorter (and less intimidating :)  ) link to the judgment
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1959/1.html

This may have to be the last rabbit.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

cp8759

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So, does anybody have any other ideas how to fight this please?
Well, has an appeal been filed?

If yes, has the council contested?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

zzzatang

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So, does anybody have any other ideas how to fight this please?
Well, has an appeal been filed?

If yes, has the council contested?

Yes the appeal with London Tribunals was filed in April. The hearing is scheduled early next week (2nd week of Jun 2024).

The council has submitted their defence. (i.e. they are contesting it)

I am happy to provide specific sections of the evidence pack submitted by the council, though it is mostly a compilation of data already posted on this thread.

Hippocrates

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So, does anybody have any other ideas how to fight this please?
Well, has an appeal been filed?

If yes, has the council contested?

Yes the appeal with London Tribunals was filed in April. The hearing is scheduled early next week (2nd week of Jun 2024).

The council has submitted their defence. (i.e. they are contesting it)

I am happy to provide specific sections of the evidence pack submitted by the council, though it is mostly a compilation of data already posted on this thread.

Please, I would rather do this privately, which I have done anyway.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 01:43:13 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

cp8759

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@zzzatang as Hippocrates has taken the lead on this thread, I suggest you let him take over the conduct of the case. He'll be able to reschedule the case to a more convenient date so that submissions don't have to be rushed etc.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order