3. Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5

Author Topic: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M  (Read 1646 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
  • Karma: +25/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2024, 11:28:03 am »
Please send me their response.
Logged
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

zzzatang

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2024, 10:37:32 am »
Quote from: Hippocrates on April 01, 2024, 11:28:03 am
Please send me their response.

I have not received any response yet. I will definitely share the response with you once I get any.
Logged

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
  • Karma: +25/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2024, 11:12:49 am »
Thanks. Sorry, I misunderstood. So, this means they are at least giving it due care and attention.  ::)
Logged
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

zzzatang

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2024, 02:31:33 am »
I have now received the NOR from the council.
NOR: https://app.box.com/s/ijc56ggswtshxwrlqx9k62r4lsb367jx

I noticed that the NOR letter is dated 03-Apr-2024. However, the "for Office use only" section of the London Tribunals form (last page of the NOR file) has a NOR date of 02-Apr-2024. Should this also be raised as an issue?

I have also attached a screenshot of the council's PCN page, it now shows 130 GBP as the due amount and shows the status as "Representation Rejected". Previously it was asking me to pay 195 GBP and had the status "Charge Certificate Posted".

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I believe the next step would be to file the online appeal at https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/

Any other suggestions, please?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 02:39:37 am by zzzatang »
Logged

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
  • Karma: +25/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2024, 01:24:52 pm »
The NOR statements about the dates are total bolleaux. I will e mail you nowish. Game on I believe.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 02:31:42 pm by Hippocrates »
Logged
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε
Like Like x 2 View List

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
  • Karma: +25/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2024, 01:48:25 pm »
Ok. I am still here.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 06:05:00 pm by Hippocrates »
Logged
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
  • Karma: +25/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2024, 10:28:22 pm »
So, does anybody have any other ideas how to fight this please?
Logged
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
  • Karma: +25/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2024, 02:05:55 pm »
NOR

Please note: - your representation was received after the Charge Certificate has been issued, however, the secretary of state allows all local authorities to use their discretion when accepting a late representation, we have on this occasion made the decision to use our discretion and we accepted your late representation. By accepting your late representation did not invalidate the legislative process of a Penalty Charge Notice.

My thoughts

1. All the legislation pertaining to decriminalised traffic enforcement is based around a sequence of actions. Each action must be completed within a specified time limit otherwise there are consequences. Any variation to one of these time limits has a knock-on effect to the subsequent action and it effectively destroys the overall framework of the legislation.

2. Prejudice is irrelevant etc.

3. Vague locus: cases plus

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1959/1.html

Please feel free to chip in.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2024, 10:23:17 pm by cp8759 »
Logged
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

John U.K.

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +21/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2024, 09:49:45 pm »
A shorter (and less intimidating :)   ) link to the judgment
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1959/1.html
Logged

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
  • Karma: +25/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2024, 12:12:18 am »
All submitted in a most reasonable manner:  it is arguable that.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2024, 12:05:55 pm by Hippocrates »
Logged
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
  • Karma: +25/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2024, 12:06:46 pm »
Quote from: John U.K. on May 29, 2024, 09:49:45 pm
A shorter (and less intimidating :)  ) link to the judgment
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1959/1.html

This may have to be the last rabbit.
Logged
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

cp8759

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5275
  • Karma: +122/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2024, 10:26:21 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on May 28, 2024, 10:28:22 pm
So, does anybody have any other ideas how to fight this please?
Well, has an appeal been filed?

If yes, has the council contested?
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

zzzatang

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2024, 12:43:43 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 02, 2024, 10:26:21 pm
Quote from: Hippocrates on May 28, 2024, 10:28:22 pm
So, does anybody have any other ideas how to fight this please?
Well, has an appeal been filed?

If yes, has the council contested?

Yes the appeal with London Tribunals was filed in April. The hearing is scheduled early next week (2nd week of Jun 2024).

The council has submitted their defence. (i.e. they are contesting it)

I am happy to provide specific sections of the evidence pack submitted by the council, though it is mostly a compilation of data already posted on this thread.
Logged

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
  • Karma: +25/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2024, 01:06:55 pm »
Quote from: zzzatang on June 03, 2024, 12:43:43 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on June 02, 2024, 10:26:21 pm
Quote from: Hippocrates on May 28, 2024, 10:28:22 pm
So, does anybody have any other ideas how to fight this please?
Well, has an appeal been filed?

If yes, has the council contested?

Yes the appeal with London Tribunals was filed in April. The hearing is scheduled early next week (2nd week of Jun 2024).

The council has submitted their defence. (i.e. they are contesting it)

I am happy to provide specific sections of the evidence pack submitted by the council, though it is mostly a compilation of data already posted on this thread.

Please, I would rather do this privately, which I have done anyway.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 01:43:13 pm by Hippocrates »
Logged
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

cp8759

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5275
  • Karma: +122/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2024, 01:58:38 pm »
@zzzatang as Hippocrates has taken the lead on this thread, I suggest you let him take over the conduct of the case. He'll be able to reschedule the case to a more convenient date so that submissions don't have to be rushed etc.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
« previous next »
  3. Redbridge PCN, Code 31j Stopping in a box junction, Horns Road (A) / TFL, yellow box, near B&M