Author Topic: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles  (Read 2324 times)

0 Members and 26 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #15 on: »
Well, you know what I say?!
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Love Love x 1 View List

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #16 on: »
@Hippocrates
Thanks for the reply.
I'll go ahead and raise an appeal with the tribunal.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2025, 10:49:30 am by bigred247 »

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #17 on: »
Please share your Notice of Appeal details first though.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #18 on: »
@Hippocrates

I have added my notice of appeal below:







« Last Edit: July 10, 2025, 11:38:42 am by bigred247 »

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #19 on: »
 :-\

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #20 on: »
I mean what you are going to say.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #21 on: »
@Hippocrates
Should I say "I rely upon my initial representation"? I have quoted my representation below. Do you feel this needs adjusting?


I just cooked up this draft as a backup just in case. Not sure its that great but worth a punt. I'll hold of til 1130pm'ish otherwise will make reps.

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to make formal representations against the issuance of the above Penalty Charge Notice, served for an alleged contravention under code 52M — Failing to comply with a restriction on motor vehicles (motor vehicles prohibited) at Rutland Road on 26 May 2025.

My representation is based on the following grounds:

1) Unenforceable and Ambiguous Signage – “Term Time Only”
The restriction signage at this location displays the following text:

“Mon–Fri 8.00–9.15am and 2.45–4.00pm – Term-time only”

There is no indication of specific dates or term periods. It is not lawful or reasonable to expect a motorist to know or check school term dates while driving. The signage therefore fails to clearly convey the restriction and has been found unenforceable in similar cases at London Tribunals.

Adjudicators have repeatedly ruled that “term-time only” restrictions must show defined date ranges or risk being invalid, as seen in publicly referenced cases on the London Tribunals website under Adequacy of Signs and Lines.

2) No Advance Warning / Safe Diversion
There is no advance signage before this restriction to warn unfamiliar drivers or allow a legal diversion. The restriction appears suddenly and is difficult to comply with safely.

3) Request for Evidence
I request the following:

- The Traffic Management Order in force for this restriction.
- Evidence of how term-time dates are communicated to drivers at this location.
- Certification of the enforcement camera.

Due to the lack of clear signage and the legal ambiguity of “term-time only” restrictions, I respectfully request cancellation of this PCN.

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #22 on: »
@Hippocrates
Can “Conor Costelloe v London Borough of Merton Case No. 2240078999” be used here?

where the adjudicator said:



“The use of the phrase "during terms times" is not authorised for the simple reason that it requires motorists to know what the term time are so it is just about non-compliance, it is about a lack of clarity as to when the restriction operates. If an advance warning sign is needed and it is not clear, the Adjudicator is entitled to conclude the overall signage is inadequate. The application is refused.”

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #23 on: »
Request for evidence: I would omit as they will address this in the NOR.

Attack the blue plate with cases and the signage and how they are easily missed.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #24 on: »
@Hippocrates, I've expanded more on the blue sign. What do you think?


Quote
I am writing to appeal against the issuance of the Penalty Charge Notice, served for an alleged contravention under code 52M — Failing to comply with a restriction on motor vehicles (motor vehicles prohibited) at Rutland Road on 26 May 2025.

My appeal is based on the following grounds:

1) Unenforceable and Ambiguous Signage – “Term Time Only”
The restriction signage at this location includes the following text:

“Mon–Fri 8.00–9.15am and 2.45–4.00pm – Term-time only”

This restriction is fundamentally unclear for the following reasons:

  • There is no specification of dates, months, or defined term periods on the signage itself.
  • Term dates are not universal — they vary across schools, boroughs, and types of institution (e.g. academies, private schools).
  • A driver is not under any legal duty to research or know school calendars in the area they are driving through.
  • The restriction therefore fails the legal standard of clarity, as it does not make the time and period of the restriction clear at the point of compliance.
The blue supplementary plate stating "Term Time Only" further compounds the ambiguity. It does not indicate which school the restriction refers to, which calendar year, or even what constitutes “term time” for enforcement purposes. This makes the sign effectively meaningless for those unfamiliar with the local education schedule — particularly drivers without school-age children or visitors to the borough.

In Conor Costelloe v London Borough of Merton (Case No. 2240078999), the adjudicator ruled:

Quote
“The use of the phrase 'during term times' is not authorised for the simple reason that it requires motorists to know what the term times are… it is about a lack of clarity as to when the restriction operates... If an advance warning sign is needed and it is not clear, the Adjudicator is entitled to conclude the overall signage is inadequate.”

This case reflects a wider consensus at London Tribunals under the category “Adequacy of Signs and Lines”, where adjudicators have repeatedly ruled that signage stating “term-time only” is unenforceable unless the date ranges are explicitly defined on the sign itself. Anything less fails to give motorists the certainty required in law.

The restriction is also discriminatory in practice, as it assumes knowledge that only those with school-connected responsibilities may possess. This creates an unfair system where lawful compliance depends not on clear signage, but on a motorist’s parental status or insider knowledge.

2) No Advance Warning or Safe Diversion
There is no advance warning signage provided prior to the restriction to inform drivers or allow them to divert legally. The restriction appears abruptly, leaving motorists — especially those unfamiliar with the area — no reasonable opportunity to avoid a contravention safely or lawfully. This compounds the unfairness and further undermines enforceability.

Conclusion
Due to the lack of legally adequate and unambiguous signage — particularly the vague “term-time only” blue plate — and the absence of advance warning, this restriction fails the required standard of clarity under traffic enforcement regulations and established London Tribunal case law.

I respectfully request that the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2025, 12:13:15 pm by bigred247 »

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #25 on: »
I like it.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Love Love x 1 View List

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #26 on: »
Fantastic. I'm going to go ahead and make the appeal. Will keep you folks updated regardless of outcome  ;)

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #27 on: »
I like it.
Me too.
Councils get away with far too much these days, and you're lucky having the London Tribunal adjudicators, because I have seen an alarming case at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal where an adjudicator decided that because no prejudice was caused to the appellant, (his opinion, naturally), the blatant procedural impropriety the council had committed could be ignored. So it seems this adjudicator is happy for a council to do what they damn well like in any circumstances.
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #28 on: »
@Incandescent @Hippocrates
I had a call with the tribunal earlier today, and the adjudicator accepted my appeal based on point 1. He didn't bother reading the other points. He completely agreed, and was even more satisified due to the citing of the preceding cases in the appeal.
Happy days  ;) I'll post his comments when i receive them via email/post.
Thank you very much folks.
Winner Winner x 1 View List

Re: Redbridge - failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles
« Reply #29 on: »
@Incandescent @Hippocrates
I had a call with the tribunal earlier today, and the adjudicator accepted my appeal based on point 1. He didn't bother reading the other points. He completely agreed, and was even more satisified due to the citing of the preceding cases in the appeal.
Happy days  ;) I'll post his comments when i receive them via email/post.
Thank you very much folks.

Mr Dodd or Mr Hoare?
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"