Author Topic: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign  (Read 2548 times)

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Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
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Hi all,

My wife just received a PCN through the post. Due to roadworks and closures in the area, she had to reroute, which may have caused some confusion. Can this be challenged on the basis of the ambiguous "term-time only" signage?

Honestly, I'm fed up with how easy it is to get a ticket these days—I’m even considering getting her a push bike for local commuting!









« Last Edit: July 28, 2025, 05:48:17 pm by bigred247 »

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Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #1 on: »
Cases have been won on the term time sign and the date - 21 July - is certainly open to being out of term time.

Looks like you've also put some pics that aren't at this location.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2025, 05:38:34 pm by stamfordman »
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Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #2 on: »
You are right. I've put some pics from the other side of the school i think. I have now removed these from the OP. The location is about 10 mins from my home, so i'll drive back to the location and get the right pics.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2025, 05:48:58 pm by bigred247 »

Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #3 on: »
21/7 is the date of notice
17/7 is the said date of offence

Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #4 on: »
Redbridge have a nasty little habit of not taking down the signs even when the school term is over.

Couple this with their own website which gives some reassurance that the school term was over when the alleged contravention was committed, id be very tempted to defend this one until the end.

https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/schools/term-dates/
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Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #5 on: »
Ah yes but 17 July is holiday time in my book and even if it wasn't the signage is defective at any time.

-----------


Case reference   2240530827
Appellant   Rodney Quinn
Authority   London Borough of Redbridge
VRM   NK18UJY
   
PCN Details
PCN   AF99386799
Contravention date   21 Oct 2024
Contravention time   15:02:00
Contravention location   Rutland Road
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Fail comply restriction vehicles entering ped zone
   
Referral date   -
   
Decision Date   19 Feb 2025
Adjudicator   Andrew Harman
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons   The contravention alleged in these proceedings is that this vehicle failed to comply with a pedestrian zone restriction. The restriction is signed by regulatory signs posted on either side of the entrance to this road. There is a plate below each sign with the following wording thereon set against a blue background: 'School Streets Restricted Access Term time only'. The appellant thought that the restriction was not in force as he believed that it was outside school term times. I am satified on the council's case that it wasn't, but a motorist cannot be expected to know when driving whether or not a relevant date falls within school term times and I am not therefore satisfied that this restriction was clearly conveyed to the appellant. The contravention has not therefore be proved. I allow the appeal.

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Case reference   2250084692
Appellant   Malcolm Batki
Authority   London Borough of Redbridge
VRM   YB73ZJN
   
PCN Details
PCN   AF30296677
Contravention date   18 Dec 2024
Contravention time   15:01:00
Contravention location   Ashford Road
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Fail comply restriction vehicles entering ped zone
   
Referral date   -
   
Decision Date   27 May 2025
Adjudicator   Edward Houghton
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons   It seems to me that the Appellant’s contention as to the clarity of the signage is in one respect well founded.
Under the terms of the Traffic Management Order the restriction on the Zone sign applies on all days during the restricted hours. There is no limitation as to school term time nor does any such limitation appear on the Zone signs. The Council, however, has added a blue sign stating “School Streets Restricted Access Term time only” This non-statutory sign is intended no doubt to inform motorists that the Council, as matter of discretion, will not enforce the prohibition out of term time. However I agree with the Appellant that a motorist will not necessarily know what is and is not term time, particularly on a date so close to Christmas. For this reason, references to term time on signage have always been frowned upon in the Traffic Signs Manual. The addition of this sign inevitably undermines the clarity of the Zone sign which correctly reflects the TMO.
The site photographs show the presence of advance warning signs and, for the avoidance of doubt, had it not been for the presence of the blue signs I would have held that the signage is otherwise perfectly clear. Motorists cannot assume that because a route was open to them on a previous occasion that will never change. Evidence of the number of contraventions, requested under FO,I is of virtually no value unless one knows the converse (which in practice one never does) i.e. how many motorists found the signage clear and complied with it.
Nevertheless as I am not satisfied the signage was clear in its present form the Appeal must be allowed.

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Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #6 on: »
@stamfordman @Princeperch
Thanks for the insight and details :)  I have started a draft representation and will post it here when ready.

Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #7 on: »
Ah yes but 17 July is holiday time in my book and even if it wasn't the signage is defective at any time.

Am I missing something as the link provided to the terms dates:
https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/schools/term-dates/
shows that the date of the offence (17th July), was in term time:

Quote
Summer Term 2025
Tuesday 22 April 2025 to Tuesday 22 July 2025

Half term break - Monday 26 May 2025 to Friday 30 May 2025
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Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #8 on: »
Ah yes but 17 July is holiday time in my book and even if it wasn't the signage is defective at any time.

Am I missing something as the link provided to the terms dates:
https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/schools/term-dates/
shows that the date of the offence (17th July), was in term time:

Quote
Summer Term 2025
Tuesday 22 April 2025 to Tuesday 22 July 2025

Half term break - Monday 26 May 2025 to Friday 30 May 2025

Sorry - wasn't being clear. 17 July is near the end of term so reinforces the defence that a driver couldn't know term times to the exact day.
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Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #9 on: »
Any representations must be handled carefully. To include seeing the blue sign and being confused by it.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #10 on: »
..I can see that Anthony Chan's review decision has had effect(a tad harsh IMO)!

OP, you were not driving therefore you could not have been confused. However, having spoken to the driver, your wife, she did say that..........

Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #11 on: »
To put it mildly. Watch this space.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #12 on: »
Does this capture all of the points?

Quote
I am writing to formally challenge PCN AF2049861A, issued for an alleged contravention under Code 53J — “Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone”.

My representation is based on the following grounds:

1) Defective and Ambiguous Signage – “Term Time Only”
The restriction is signed with:

"Mon–Fri 8.00–9.00am and 2.15–3.45pm – Term-time only"

This wording is fundamentally unclear and unenforceable, for the following reasons:

- The term “Term-time only” is not defined on the sign.
- Term dates vary across schools and boroughs. A motorist cannot reasonably be expected to know the specific academic calendar.
- There is no reference to dates or time periods that could enable lawful compliance at the point of approach.
- The signage does not comply with the TSRGD 2022 and has no visible DfT authorisation allowing this variation.

In Rodney Quinn v LB Redbridge (Case 2240530827), the adjudicator ruled:

"...a motorist cannot be expected to know whether or not a relevant date falls within school term times and I am not therefore satisfied that this restriction was clearly conveyed to the appellant."

Similarly, in Malcolm Batki v LB Redbridge (Case 2250084692), the adjudicator found the blue sign stating “School Streets Restricted Access Term time only” was non-statutory and undermined the clarity of the restriction.

These cases reflect a growing recognition that signage relying on undefined “term time” language fails the legal requirement of clarity and enforceability.

2) Confusion Due to Date Near End of School Term
The alleged contravention occurred on 17 July 2025. According to Redbridge Council’s own website:

Quote
Summer Term 2025: 22 April – 22 July 2025
(https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/schools/term-dates/)

This was within the final few school days of the academic year, when many parents and schools have already broken for the summer — adding to public confusion.

Drivers without school-age children or unfamiliar with Redbridge’s exact term calendar may reasonably believe the term had ended — particularly when no dates are specified on signage. This ambiguity is exacerbated by Redbridge’s reported practice of leaving restriction signs in place even outside of term time, misleading motorists further.

3) Tribunal Precedents – Redbridge
In addition to the cases already cited, you will also be aware of Costelloe v LB Merton (Case 2240078999), where similar signage using “school term time” was deemed “substantially non-compliant”, and the appeal was allowed.

There is now a clear pattern of adjudicators finding these types of restrictions invalid due to poor signage and ambiguous wording.

Conclusion
For all the reasons stated above — namely:

- Defective and unauthorised signage
- Unreasonable ambiguity around term-time enforcement
- Documented tribunal rulings cancelling Redbridge PCNs on identical grounds

I respectfully request that PCN AF2049861A be cancelled.

Should I add point 3 to point 1?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2025, 01:59:13 pm by bigred247 »

Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #13 on: »
You missed the steer from Hippo/Andersen and made no mention of the personal circumstances on the day, instead just making template reps.

Needs careful wording to avoid untruths.
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Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
« Reply #14 on: »
I will have to give this my most serious consideration. From the outset though, this is far too much. Back later. Basic point: was the driver misled by the term time bit? If not, Herron case will be thrown into the mix.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Like Like x 1 View List