Author Topic: *SPLIT FROM HIJACKED THREAT* - Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET  (Read 1059 times)

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Hi @henryjago and @Hippocrates,

Thank you for this very useful thread. I received a PCN for driving in this same stretch of bus lane, and this thread helped me draft an informal challenge. Unfortunately, the challenge was rejected, and today I received the Enforcement Notice. I am going to submit a formal representation, but wanted to check what you selected as grounds for representation (There was no breach of the bus lane order or regulation OR Other mitigating circumstances) as I would hate for it to be rejected on a technicality.

Many thanks.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2025, 01:36:01 am by cp8759 »

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Re: Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #1 on: »
Hi @Cantab1985

Sorry to hear you got done too. The text of my formal representation is in the above thread in full. It was basically the same as the informal rep.

Don't be deterred by the fact your informal rep was rejected - their business model works on the basis that they reject virtually every informal rep.

I think the the key point in my case was that they said that "BUS LANE" was clearly written in the road (which they are required to do) - and it wasn't. So unless they've gone back and put it on the road since, I'd focus on that. But you can see my other rationale about inadequate signage and errors on the PCN and Enforcement Notice too.

Ultimately, I do not know why my PCN was cancelled, but I suspect (or like to think) they realised they would lose at tribunal  on the basis they made a factual error re the legend. But in reality, it may be that they were simply overwhelmed and couldn't reply within a decent period of time. Who knows.

Good luck!

Re: Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #2 on: »
PM me if you need help and start your own thread. They have staffing issues.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #3 on: »
Thanks for your replies @henryjago and @Hippocrates.

I'm very grateful for this thread, as without it, I probably would have just paid up when I received the initial PCN, even though I had a strong feeling something must be off, as I'm generally really careful to avoid bus lanes. Suspiciously, the PCN only arrived on the final day to pay the discounted amount, and as I don't live in London I wasn't able to get to Camden to check the signage and road markings, but thanks to this thread I was able to submit a decent challenge.

As expected, the challenge was rejected. Interestingly, in the rejection letter, they state "the bus lane is clearly marked out on the road surface", and "The legend 'BUS LANE' is marked on the road". However, I have since been able to visit the location (and take photographs) and can confirm this is incorrect. The only road markings on this stretch of road are 'BUS STOP'.

I submitted my formal representation earlier (see below), borrowing heavily from your version (I hope you don't mind). Hopefully, they will reach the same conclusion as with your case and eventually cancel the fine - I'll update this thread when I hear back.

It's outrageous that TfL are targeting motorists in such underhanded ways, but wonderful that people like you are here to help us fight back, so huge thanks to you both once again!



I am writing to make formal representations against the Enforcement Notice issued in respect of the above Penalty Charge Notice. I dispute liability for the alleged contravention on the grounds that (1) the signage and road markings are inadequate and misleading, and (2) the enforcement documentation contains material procedural and legal errors rendering the PCN unenforceable.


1. Inadequate and misleading signage

The advance warning sign on Camden Road (before Lyme Street) is obscured by a Congestion Charge sign. Please see image 1. There should be adequate advance warning of the presence of a bus lane.

The bus lane then begins immediately after the yellow box junction at Camden Street, where the dotted white line of the bus lane meets the junction line, leaving no safe opportunity for drivers to adjust. Please see image 2.

Additionally, the lane arrow before the junction directs motorists to continue straight on, yet doing so immediately leads into the bus lane. Please see image 3. This is contradictory and misleading.

The carriageway also lacks “Bus Lane” markings found on other Camden bus lanes. Please see image 4. At no point does the bus lane have the words “Bus Lane” written on the tarmac from its commencement at Camden Street to the end.

Collectively, these factors fail to meet the requirements of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD) and the Traffic Management Act 2004 for clear and lawful signage.


2. Procedural and legal errors

The notes on the Enforcement Notice incorrectly identify it as a “Penalty Charge Notice” (see Image 5). This misdescription is misleading and confusing, as the two documents serve distinct statutory purposes.

The Enforcement Notice refers to The Interpretation Act, which is irrelevant and confusing, since the legislation governing bus lane enforcement specifies actions from the date of the Notice, not from deemed service. This error could mislead recipients regarding timeframes and rights.

The statement: “Any written correspondence before the issue of the Enforcement Notice will not be treated as a formal representation.” unlawfully fetters discretion. Section 4(3)(e) of the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (see https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/4/enacted) states that the authority may serve an Enforcement Notice. By stating it will, the Council misrepresents its legal discretion.

The assertion: “It will not entitle you to the right of appeal.” is legally incorrect and contrary to natural justice. The following paragraph then suggests such correspondence will be considered, directly contradicting the previous statement and creating confusion.

The statement: “Failure to respond or contact us within 28 days... will result in the Enforcement Notice automatically being sent to you...” is inaccurate and fetters discretion. The legislation provides that the authority may serve an Enforcement Notice; it is not an automatic process.


Conclusion

The combination of inadequate and misleading signage and multiple procedural defects renders this PCN invalid and unenforceable. I therefore respectfully request that the Enforcement Notice be cancelled and no further enforcement action taken.

@Cantab1985 you now have your own thread, we don't hijack other people's threads as that makes things unmanageable very quickly.

If you follow Hippocrates' advice you can't really go wrong.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Sorry @cp8759, I wasn't intending to hijack, added to the thread as it was a PCN for identical location and offence so thought it was relevant. I neglected to read the house rules. Apologies! Thanks for sorting.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2025, 11:13:58 pm by Cantab1985 »

IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r