3. TfL - Stopped on a Red Route - CCTV PCN - Cheam High Street SM3
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TfL - Stopped on a Red Route - CCTV PCN - Cheam High Street SM3
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Hi All,

I was sent a postal PCN from TfL dated 20 August 2024, due to parking in a bay on a red route during restricted hours. The bay I parked in was a WHITE bay/box, surrounded by red lines further down the road. I genuinely thought the 'red' route signs were applicable to 'red' lines and 'red' bays/boxes only, and that WHITE boxes were normal parking spaces outside of the red route restrictions.

This is clearly a case of me not knowing the correct rules of the road, I accept full responsibility of that, however given it was a genuine (albeit stupid) mistake, I would obviously like to avoid paying the £80/£160 fine if there is a legal grounds to do so.

I have seen multiple people site 'Commercial Plant Services Ltd & others v Transport for London (2230060716, 25 May 2023)' to appeal their PCNs, stating it is unlawful for TfL to serve a postal PCN using CCTV. However I have also seen quite a few people saying TfL still responded and rejected their appeals on that basis.

I'm really hoping someone could please let me know if it is in fact illegal for TfL to issue the PCN using CCTV and therefore a solid case to appeal, or if this is no longer viable and I need to just pay the £80?


The PCN:


Google Maps street view: https://maps.app.goo.gl/VwCZ77FFkUhg2Z256

Thank you in advance for any help.
Rachel
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Re: TfL - Stopped on a Red Route - CCTV PCN - Cheam High Street SM3
« Reply #1 on: »
Quote
I'm really hoping someone could please let me know if it is in fact illegal for TfL to issue the PCN using CCTV and therefore a solid case to appeal, or if this is no longer viable and I need to just pay the £80?
This actually got to the High Court, when Transport for London disagreed with a London Tribunals decision, took them to judicial review, and won, but it is not totally as clear cut as they wanted. So don't just fold now and cough-up, but wait for comments.

Looking at the PCN, it seems very unclear as to the location, because there are loads of "High Streets". Typing the location on the PCN comes up with a High Street in Cheam. Is this correct ? Vague locus is definitely grounds for an appeal and has won in the past, (appeal = at London Tribunals).
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Re: TfL - Stopped on a Red Route - CCTV PCN - Cheam High Street SM3
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you for taking time to reply! I will wait to see if I get any other replies before the time runs out for the discounted £80 fine.

Yes Cheam high street is correct unfortunately so not sure this would count as too vague for appeal? Although could be worth a try regardless 🤷🏽‍♀️
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Re: TfL - Stopped on a Red Route - CCTV PCN - Cheam High Street SM3
« Reply #3 on: »
Can you please post a GSV link to the exact location, please.
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Re: TfL - Stopped on a Red Route - CCTV PCN - Cheam High Street SM3
« Reply #4 on: »
'40-46 High Street SM3' takes you to the location. 
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Re: TfL - Stopped on a Red Route - CCTV PCN - Cheam High Street SM3
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on August 28, 2024, 01:07:56 pm
'40-46 High Street SM3' takes you to the location.
So here is the location and the bay with a sign right outside No 44
https://maps.app.goo.gl/yenArvcgbt9vbDnG6
There's another identical sign outside No 48 too.
Interesting that "The Framery" thinks it's No 446 !
So the only parking allowed is for loading/unloading and BB holders. So whilst it is a parking bay, the OP would see not to have read the sign controlling the bay. Even when one parks in any marked-out parking bay it is essential to read the sign for it.
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Re: TfL - Stopped on a Red Route - CCTV PCN - Cheam High Street SM3
« Reply #6 on: »
The next bay is a 30 mins parking bay so it's not surprising people get confused. The signs do not face traffic so it's difficult to read them without contravening no stopping depending on others cars parked in the bay. 

What were you doing as loading and disabled parking are exemptions at that time.
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Re: TfL - Stopped on a Red Route - CCTV PCN - Cheam High Street SM3
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on August 28, 2024, 02:37:12 pm
The next bay is a 30 mins parking bay so it's not surprising people get confused. The signs do not face traffic so it's difficult to read them without contravening no stopping depending on others cars parked in the bay. 

What were you doing as loading and disabled parking are exemptions at that time.

Yes it's hard to read the signs whilst you're driving because they face forward, so you have to actually drive past them first to read them. So realistically you need to pull in to the space to read the sign properly, especially if there's traffic behind you on the main road.

However, I was not loading/unloading and I do not have a blue badge. I parked in the white bay to go to an appointment because I wrongly assumed the red route signs were applicable to single red lines and red boxes only. (In the same way yellow signs tell you when you can park on single yellow lines). I thought the white boxes were 'normal' spaces. It was my mistake. But seeing as it was a mistake I wasn't sure if I could use the use of CCTV to issue the fine as a legal defence or not, seeing as the information I've read on the topic has been quite confusing  :-\
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Re: TfL - Stopped on a Red Route - CCTV PCN - Cheam High Street SM3
« Reply #8 on: »
What are the times in the photos?
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