3. Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
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Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #30 on: »
@steamingbanana please post the NTO on here.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #31 on: »








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Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #32 on: »
@steamingbanana Draft reps:

Dear East Hertfordshire District Council,

I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur.

From my investigation it appears a waiting restriction has been created at this location by means of Traffic Regulation Orders, The Hertfordshire (Fore Street, Hertford) (Prohibition Of Motor Vehicles) Order 2023 and The Hertfordshire (Hertford Town Centre) (Restricted Parking Zone) Order 2023, these orders cannot create a taxi rank as such but rather a waiting restriction with an exemption for taxis. Such a restriction would have to be enforced under code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.

In order to enforce code 45 - Parked on a taxi rank, there would need to be a taxi rank. A taxi rank is legally created under section 63 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, however I do not believe that this has been done. In the absence of a duly appointed hackney carriage stand under the 1976 Act, there is no taxi rank so the contravention alleged on the face of the penalty charge notice cannot have occurred, it follows that the penalty charge must be cancelled.

If you are minded to reject these representations, please would you provide evidence that a taxi rank has been appointed under the 1976 Act.

Yours faithfully,


Send this online via https://www.hertsparking.co.uk/eastherts/default.aspx and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.

If they reject, at the tribunal stage we can also deploy this video I quickly put together:



To be used in conjunction with all the cases here listed under "Wrong grounds of appeal listed on website", the latest TPT one being Gouri Shanker Chandel v City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council (BQ00191-2408, 9 October 2024).
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #33 on: »
Hi

@cp8759

I followed the online link - and it seemed like the online form was identical to the "appeal process" prior to receiving the NTO. The possible reasons for "appeal" (it didn't even mention the word "representation" which the NTO letter clearly does) did not include "The alleged contravention did not occur" - even though again this is listed on the NTO letter.

It's almost like they haven't provided me with the correct link.

I clicked on "any other reason" - which then takes me to a text box - and I copied and pasted your text - and it was too many characters.

Think I will either need to email it - or maybe try to save as a document and upload.

Thanks for your help so far though - apologies for delay - I was unwell and have only just got back to doing things that need to be done!

EDIT: Sorry - I have just re-read your previous post where you had clearly picked up on the fact that the website did not have the correct reasons for appeal (or at least the link they provided).
So I guess it is just a case of uploading it as an attachment then? (rather than email option)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 06:01:00 pm by steamingbanana »
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Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #34 on: »
Quote from: steamingbanana on January 21, 2025, 05:51:53 pm
So I guess it is just a case of uploading it as an attachment then? (rather than email option)
@steamingbanana yes just put it in a PDF. As a matter of general practice you should never cut down the amount of text just because of some stupid character limit.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #35 on: »
Got my rejection email from East Herts. I will get around to uploading the letter to here - but it is probably as you expect.
So - I guess the next stage is to take it to tribunal
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Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #36 on: »
@steamingbanana let's see what the rejection says.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #37 on: »











I covered up some personal info and it slightly covered the wording on page 4 - so I have shown that separately in case the wording was crucial.

Many thanks
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Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #38 on: »
Well the rejection looks like nonsense to me, they've obviously not understood the point. In any event as the discount isn't on offer it would make no sense to pay now. I will drop you a PM in case you'd like me to represent you.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #39 on: »
@cp8759

Hi, sent you a PM on this thread. Thank you.
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Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #40 on: »
Two per-incuriam decisions for the price of one, outcome and review outcome.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #41 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on May 14, 2025, 10:05:18 pm
Two per-incuriam decisions for the price of one, outcome and review outcome.
So as far as TPT is concerned, councils can do what they like and ignore literally anything in the law and regulations because of this obscure Scottish decision. So "procedural impropriety", not present in the Scottish Act is now apparently dead as far as TPT is concerned when the PCN is under the TMA 2004, that introduced "procedural impr.

I find this quite astonishing and it is obvious that TPT are now captured by the councils and useless as an adjudication authority

And, of course, they hide behind the huge barrier of Judicial Review that is almost impossible for the ordinary citizen to consider. Will anybody at TPT ask themselves why the TMA 2004 introduced the additional statutory groudn of "procedural impropriety" It surely was to stamp out councils running riot with PCN enforcement.
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Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #42 on: »
There's a way to make this less likely in future cases, but I've had 4 reviews this year and I've won 3 of them. You can't expect to win 100% of the time, as all litigation carries an element of risk.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #43 on: »
Maybe I'm missing it but what happened to the below.

---------

From my investigation it appears a waiting restriction has been created at this location by means of Traffic Regulation Orders, The Hertfordshire (Fore Street, Hertford) (Prohibition Of Motor Vehicles) Order 2023 and The Hertfordshire (Hertford Town Centre) (Restricted Parking Zone) Order 2023, these orders cannot create a taxi rank as such but rather a waiting restriction with an exemption for taxis. Such a restriction would have to be enforced under code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.

In order to enforce code 45 - Parked on a taxi rank, there would need to be a taxi rank. A taxi rank is legally created under section 63 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, however I do not believe that this has been done. In the absence of a duly appointed hackney carriage stand under the 1976 Act, there is no taxi rank so the contravention alleged on the face of the penalty charge notice cannot have occurred, it follows that the penalty charge must be cancelled.
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Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore Street, Hertford
« Reply #44 on: »
Too late now, but from the Traffic Signs Manual:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/782724/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

The order of precedence is to be read upwards, not downwards!

Lower panel(s) give parking place permissions;
Upper panel gives waiting restriction.

The times during which the waiting restriction applies would normally be the complement of those during which the parking permissions apply. In some cases they may not complement BUT THEY CANNOT OVERLAP!

The signs here read:
Permitted parking: 24/7!

There's no scope for a waiting restriction.

The council's interpretation is:
Waiting Fri, Sat 6pm to 8am;
Of the remaining time:
*** to *** is restricted to Goods Vehicle loading with whatever is left over unrestricted parking.

'At other times' applies to the parking restriction and has nothing to do with waiting.

In short: the use of a waiting sign in combination with a 'P' 'At other times' (whether on its own or in combination with another parking restriction) is unlawful. IMO.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2025, 04:55:24 pm by H C Andersen »
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