Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi everyone, and thank you in advance for your time. I'm new to the forum and I'm seeking help because I received a pcn in Barking and Dagenham and probably will arrive more, 2-3 more. I was picking up my son from school and sometimes I took him to the nearby park to let him play, and I went through a road that seemed like all other roads and I did in the past, but never aware that was a road closed to car traffic for like 1 hour in the afternoon, so I did it unintentionally and totally unaware cause the road signal from driving direction is not on the road but on the far left side of the pedestrian pavement like you can see in the photo I attached. Could someone please help me with this cause I'm in financial stress lately and can't afford this blow. On a personal level I'm also shocked, I'm Italian, in Italy when a road is closed to traffic even for few hours they put in place removable barriers, here in UK there are not clear signals, it seems everything is done to cash out on drivers (not that in Italy is different) but here is crazy, are we supposed to pay attention to the road/vehicles/possible hazards or every 10 seconds watch out for a possible small signal, camera etc...this is just out of frustration, sorry. I did write a challenge with the help of chatgpt but I haven't challenged it yet, I could post it here if you'd like. I'd be very grateful is someone could help me. Thank you in advance

OP, did you understand the meaning of the two "flying motorbike signs" ?  We see so many cases where the recipient of  the PCN had no idea what they meant.

Please post the PCN, all sides, with only name and address redacted, and also a GSV link to the location, because at the moment we are totally in the dark.

Quote from: stamfordman on November 18, 2024, 05:08:09 pm

Video. Signs look oddly positioned. Is there an advance warning sign?

No those are the only signs you can see on the road

I've attached the photos front and back of the pcn on the first message, is it not working?
here's the link on google map https://maps.app.goo.gl/2N9iVArFUKhamaXr7
thanks

I think I would be tempted to take them to London Tribunals on this one. The signs are almost immediately after one turns left, with no advance warning whatsoever. Presumably the council are happy that if you do see the signs, you jam your brakes on and do a three-point turn.

If you say there are more PCNs coming, I suggest you contact the council to find out how many, because at least you should not have to pay those arriving after the first one, but dated between the first one and the day it arrived in the mail. This is a well-established appeal argument.

Quote from: Incandescent on November 19, 2024, 04:55:54 pm

I think I would be tempted to take them to London Tribunals on this one. The signs are almost immediately after one turns left, with no advance warning whatsoever. Presumably the council are happy that if you do see the signs, you jam your brakes on and do a three-point turn.

If you say there are more PCNs coming, I suggest you contact the council to find out how many, because at least you should not have to pay those arriving after the first one, but dated between the first one and the day it arrived in the mail. This is a well-established appeal argument.

I haven't challenged it yet, I was waiting for advice, I don't know how to proceed. Should I challenge it or should I contact them first to see if there are more coming? and in case there are more coming what I should do or say to them?

Contact them first. At least get the PCN Numbers off them, so you can include them in your representation. You need for them all to be in a single rep.

Quote from: Incandescent on November 19, 2024, 11:32:01 pm

Quote from: Sandymarton on November 19, 2024, 11:12:05 pm

Quote from: Incandescent on November 19, 2024, 04:55:54 pm

I think I would be tempted to take them to London Tribunals on this one. The signs are almost immediately after one turns left, with no advance warning whatsoever. Presumably the council are happy that if you do see the signs, you jam your brakes on and do a three-point turn.

If you say there are more PCNs coming, I suggest you contact the council to find out how many, because at least you should not have to pay those arriving after the first one, but dated between the first one and the day it arrived in the mail. This is a well-established appeal argument.

I haven't challenged it yet, I was waiting for advice, I don't know how to proceed. Should I challenge it or should I contact them first to see if there are more coming? and in case there are more coming what I should do or say to them?

Contact them first. At least get the PCN Numbers off them, so you can include them in your representation. You need for them all to be in a single rep.

ok I ll call them tomorrow and I update you thank you very much!

I called them, the operator told me on the phone that doesn't result anything apart from the one I received
What do I do now? thanks a lot

I can see only one allowed appeal for this end of Stevens Road and it's back in 2021. Taking it to the tribunal may be risky unless there are other grounds.

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2220435346

I decided this appeal having heard evidence from the appellant in person.

I can only allow an appeal if the authority has acted unlawfully by failing to comply with road traffic law or follow its own procedures.
The authority relies on CCTV evidence and photographic evidence which it says shows that the appellant's vehicle drove into a restricted road. The CCTV shows the appellant's vehicle driving past signs on either side of the road warning morning motorists of the restriction.
The appellant said that she was unfamiliar with the area and was collecting a child from school who may have had Covid. She says that the signs were not adequately visible for motorist turning left into the restricted road.
I have looked carefully at the authority's evidence. In my view it is not possible to tell from the CCTV evidence whether the signs would have been adequately visible to motorists turning left into the restricted road. What was needed was clear photographic evidence giving a better perspective of what the driver of the appellant's vehicle was likely to have been able to see.
Unfortunately, none of the photographs provided by the authority appeared to show what a vehicle approaching the restriction, from the direction in which the appellant's vehicle was travelling, would have seen. Instead they appeared to relate to other parts of the road. I certainly found it impossible to match up the photographs to the CCTV.
The appellant provided photographs however before I only consider her photographs, if I am satisfied the authority has provided sufficient evidence to support the alleged contravention. This includes sufficient evidence to show that the signage warning motorists of the restriction, would have been adequately visible to motorists turning left into the restricted road.
In my view, the CCTV and photographic evidence provided by the authorities not of sufficient quality to do this. I am therefore unable to conclude on the balance of probabilities that the authority has shown it discharge its legal duty to take reasonable steps to ensure motorists were aware of the restriction in force at that location.
Accordingly, I cannot be satisfied the authority has shown a contravention occurred all that it acted lawfully by issuing and enforcing the penalty charge notice.

Should I challenge it online and see what they reply?

I can see only one allowed appeal for this end of Stevens Road and it's back in 2021. Taking it to the tribunal may be risky unless there are other grounds.

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2220435346

I decided this appeal having heard evidence from the appellant in person.

I can only allow an appeal if the authority has acted unlawfully by failing to comply with road traffic law or follow its own procedures.
The authority relies on CCTV evidence and photographic evidence which it says shows that the appellant's vehicle drove into a restricted road. The CCTV shows the appellant's vehicle driving past signs on either side of the road warning morning motorists of the restriction.
The appellant said that she was unfamiliar with the area and was collecting a child from school who may have had Covid. She says that the signs were not adequately visible for motorist turning left into the restricted road.
I have looked carefully at the authority's evidence. In my view it is not possible to tell from the CCTV evidence whether the signs would have been adequately visible to motorists turning left into the restricted road. What was needed was clear photographic evidence giving a better perspective of what the driver of the appellant's vehicle was likely to have been able to see.
Unfortunately, none of the photographs provided by the authority appeared to show what a vehicle approaching the restriction, from the direction in which the appellant's vehicle was travelling, would have seen. Instead they appeared to relate to other parts of the road. I certainly found it impossible to match up the photographs to the CCTV.
The appellant provided photographs however before I only consider her photographs, if I am satisfied the authority has provided sufficient evidence to support the alleged contravention. This includes sufficient evidence to show that the signage warning motorists of the restriction, would have been adequately visible to motorists turning left into the restricted road.
In my view, the CCTV and photographic evidence provided by the authorities not of sufficient quality to do this. I am therefore unable to conclude on the balance of probabilities that the authority has shown it discharge its legal duty to take reasonable steps to ensure motorists were aware of the restriction in force at that location.
Accordingly, I cannot be satisfied the authority has shown a contravention occurred all that it acted lawfully by issuing and enforcing the penalty charge notice.