Author Topic: Redbridge, stopped on red route or clearway, Cranbrook Road  (Read 1374 times)

0 Members and 28 Guests are viewing this topic.

Redbridge, stopped on red route or clearway, Cranbrook Road
« on: »
Hi everyone,

I’m looking for advice on how to challenge a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) I received and would greatly appreciate any input. Here are the details:

PCN Number: AF98919170
Vehicle Registration: KH19NKM
Contravention Date: Monday, 22 July 2024 at 17:06
Location: Cranbrook Road
Contravention: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway)

I am a licensed private hire vehicle (PHV) driver. On the date of the alleged contravention, I stopped on Cranbrook Road to pick up a passenger. According to Transport for London (TfL) guidelines, PHVs are allowed to stop on most red routes to pick up or drop off passengers as long as the PHV license is displayed, which it was.

When I first received the PCN, I was confused because I believed I was complying with the rules. However, I decided to double-check the regulations and found this on the Redbridge Council website:
"A red route zone is either a double or single red line at the side of the carriageway. This means that you cannot stop at the side of the road. Red routes on Cranbrook Road (Ilford) are enforced by Redbridge. Private hire vehicles are NOT permitted to stop on this red route. All other red routes in Redbridge are enforced by Transport for London. For information about red routes managed by TfL please visit the tfl website."

So now I'm a bit lost on how I should challenge this PCN or what arguments I could use.

https://imgur.com/a/Kq2CAUY
https://imgur.com/a/gr2l47X

https://maps.app.goo.gl/mk4se3MPMuGUe3mY9

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook

Like Like x 1 View List

Re: Redbridge, stopped on red route or clearway, Cranbrook Road
« Reply #1 on: »
This is a trick surely - how are you supposed to know it's not a TFL red route, especially as Redbridge has TFL red routes too in the borough.
Maybe there is signage that differentiates it - Google Maps is too old for this as this was put in this year - but even then how would you know PHVs are not exempt. 
TFL does say there are some red routes run by councils but I can't think of others.

Notice:
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4534831

However, video shows no pick up or assisted boarding and you'd probable be issued with a PCN by TFL in any case.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2024, 10:35:26 pm by stamfordman »

Re: Redbridge, stopped on red route or clearway, Cranbrook Road
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks for the reply!

I agree, it’s really confusing trying to figure out which red routes are managed by TfL and which are handled by the council, especially when they are in the same borough. I didn’t see any clear signage indicating the difference when I was there.
It seems really unfair as there was no clear way for me to know PHVs aren't exempt on this particular stretch.

Regarding the video, I understand it shows me stopped without any visible pick-up or assisted boarding. The issue is that I had to wait a few minutes for my passenger to come into the car, so the video might not capture the whole context.

Is there any way to contest based on the fact that the signage was unclear and there was no indication that this specific red route was managed differently?

Re: Redbridge, stopped on red route or clearway, Cranbrook Road
« Reply #3 on: »
Hi, I am also a PHV driver and have had a PCN issued on this road for the same exact reason. Please can you kindly let me know whether you succeeded in appealing? If you did, what did you argue? I feel very confused and lost.

I would be very grateful if you could let me know what happened in the end with your challenge.

I look forward to your response.

Many thanks

Re: Redbridge, stopped on red route or clearway, Cranbrook Road
« Reply #4 on: »
Hi, I am also a PHV driver and have had a PCN issued on this road for the same exact reason. Please can you kindly let me know whether you succeeded in appealing? If you did, what did you argue? I feel very confused and lost.

I would be very grateful if you could let me know what happened in the end with your challenge.

I look forward to your response.

Many thanks

If you want help with your case you need to start your own thread.

No one else apart from me has so far commented on this but I would certainly challenge it not least because we need to see how Redbridge defends it.

Re: Redbridge, stopped on red route or clearway, Cranbrook Road
« Reply #5 on: »
Hello

I am a private hire driver and I had the same issue. I stopped to pick up a passenger who was already waiting for me and received a fine in the post. I appealed this with Redbridge council only to find that the Cranbrook red route is managed by Redbridge and private hire drivers are not allowed to stop even when they are picking up passengers so my appeal was rejected.

I  took the next stage and appealed to the tribunal and was successful.

I made the following points:

I am a private hire driver (and provided proof).
I stopped to pick up a passenger
That I was unaware that the Cranbrook road red route is managed by Redbridge and that private hire drivers cannot stop to pick up passengers.
Redbridge has clearly stated on their website that some red routes in Redbridge are managed by them and others by TFL and to know drivers must check their website.
I explained as a private hire driver this is impossible to do for all the boroughs as this is unrealistic.

They tribunal sent  the following response

The adjudicator, having considered the evidence submitted by the parties, has allowed the appeal.

The reasons for the adjudicator's decision are enclosed.

The adjudicator directs London Borough of Redbridge to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice
and the Notice to Owner.

If any penalty or fees have already been paid, the Enforcement Authority must now issue a refund
without delay. Enquiries regarding payment of the refund should be made to the Enforcement
Authority.

An independent tribunal for environment, parking and traffic penalty appeals
Environment and Traffic Adjudicators are supported by London Tribunals, a service provided by London Councils

Calls to London Tribunals may be recorded

Adjudicator's Reasons
This is another case of a PHV driver stopping on a red route in Redbridge believing he had the same
exemption for dropping off a passenger as he would on TfL red routes throughout the rest of London.
There is no signage at he location to inform him that this is not the case.
The 2021 Traffic Management Order put in evidence by the Council makes no reference to red
routes. The reference to stopping restrictions in Article 7 appears to be limited to verges and
clearways. If the Council has a red route Order in its usual form it should be produced. In the
circumstances I am unable to be satisfied that the red route signage relied on is supported by a TMO and the Appeal is therefore allowed.

In any event It cannot be right or fair that this exemption only applies on Transport for London
red routes because a private hire driver (or black taxi) would never be able to discern when
working that there is no such exemption on a red route where another Authority is entitled to
issue PCNs. Some form of notice is required and in its absence would doubt that the
prohibition relied could be said to be sufficiently clearly indicated to PHV drivers who have
been advised by the Enforcement Authority for London that they are allowed to stop there.

I would, however, caution the Appellant as treating this decision as a licence to stop on a red route in
Redbridge in future as it is conceivable that further evidence in some future case might lead to a
different conclusion.


Re: Redbridge, stopped on red route or clearway, Cranbrook Road
« Reply #6 on: »
Yes, most of the adjudicators are wise to this scam by Redbridge and are allowing appeals. That Redbridge is contesting them opens them up to cost orders in my view.

Redbridge must sign its red route to differentiate it from TFL's many red routes or allow the same exemption for PHVs.

Re: Redbridge, stopped on red route or clearway, Cranbrook Road
« Reply #7 on: »
There are technical issues with their website too. Please screenshot all pages as if to challenge and report back.

https://imgur.com/a/AJIPlif

The last page is somewhat fettering.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2024, 01:03:20 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r