Free Traffic Legal Advice

Good Afternoon all

I won't waste my time and energy in having a rant at Redbridge council.

Currently don't have a redacted copy of the PCN, so will post when I can.  In the meantime, details are as follows:

PCN ref: AF9860190A
VRN: SAF17A

Location/Direction Junction of High Rd(Ilford) & Cricklefield Place (Westbound)

I'm very wary of the 'No U-turn' 'For 110 Yards' signs that you can see in the GSV, so in order to head back in the opposite direction (i.e. Eastbound) to then take the left turn up Aldborough Rd South (you can't take a right turn into this road when heading West), I either:

1) take a left turn into Cricklefield Place, perform a 3-point turn further down this road and then exit it by taking a right turn; or
2) take a right-turn into the private carpark of RGB Electrical, making sure that the vehicle completely leaves the road/pavement and fully enters the carpark. Entirely within the bounds of the carpark, I then either:
  a) perform a 3-point turn;
  b) turn the vehicle round in one continuous movement;
 
and then exit left out of the carpark whilst either:
  i)  having to give-way to pedestrians/other vehicles; or
  ii) in their absence, again in one continuous movement without stopping.

In this instance, the video evidence (which I can't save) provided by LBR shows b) ii) as referenced above.

Your thoughts/advice very welcome.

Regards - NTIAEP

......and have just received a 2nd PCN (again via post) for a repeat instance of the same alleged contravention, 3 days after the first alleged contravention.

Yes - the vehicle completely entered the RGB carpark.  I always ensure that it does (specifically for this reason) and have been doing so for the past few/several years, ever since they installed the CCTV.  The reasons for entering the carpark of no concern or business of Redbridge council.

As far as I am concerned, I took a right-turn to enter the carpark and then exited the carpark by taking a left-turn.

Will wait for some more responses from fellow forum members before submitting any reps etc.

Submitted my inital reps as follows:

"The alleged contravention did not occur and the video and/or photo evidence provided by LBR does not prove otherwise.

Rather, the vehicle took a right turn onto private land, fully entering it and completely leaving the carriageway.  The vehicle then exited the private land and took a left turn on to the carriageway."

@cp8759  how did you get the video onto YouTube?

This is bolleaux.  FGS.

Cannot access the NOR.

In the process of submitting the following for the tribunals.  Any feedback?


The alleged contravention of “Performing a prohibited turn (no U-turn)” did not occur and the video and/or photo evidence provided by LBR does not prove otherwise.

Rather, the vehicle took a permitted right-turn onto private land, fully entering it (i.e. crossing the building line) and therefore completely leaving the carriageway and footway.  At the timing and complete discretion of the driver (which is of no concern to LBR, nor does it have any authority to dictate), the vehicle then exited the same private land and proceeded to take a permitted left-turn on to the carriageway.

Please note:
- that there are no signs which prohibit either a ‘right-turn’ nor a ‘left-turn’ covering this specific stretch of carriageway;
- that once a vehicle has left the road, the ‘traffic management order’ does not apply. It therefore follows that even in the event of an immediate return to the road by the vehicle, this contravention cannot occur whatever direction the vehicle then travels in. Please see “London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham -v- Pirooz Azadegan” - Appeal number 2110041915 [para 42]

This location/prohibited u-turn came come several times on the old forum. The critical factor is whether the vehicle left the road and there is a panel decision on this that includes the case you cite. It looks like you may have done but maybe not quite and plenty of appeals have fallen with people using the same manoeuvre but often more obviously on the footway line.
Note that there is also a distance from the sign of 240 yards (not metres...) - probably within this but how to tell. But it may be the distance to the next u-turn sign as there are two. 

The Panel decision in Azadegan (2110041915) where the Panel considered at what point a vehicle is deemed to have left the road. The finding at paragraphs 42 and 43 are that:
“A road is generally all land from the building line on one side to the building line on the other. It typically has a carriageway in the middle with footways on either side. A footway may include ‘crossovers’ which give access from the carriageway to adjoining premises. They may all be part of the road, as may grass verges, flower beds or paved areas.”
"44. In Glidden Road, although the vehicle enters the crossover to the adjoining block of flats, which we understand is called Baron’s Keep, the vehicle is on the road at all times. The road that the vehicle it is on at all times is Glidden Road."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/Azadegan%2520and%2520Orphanides%2520%2528Panel%2520Hearing%2529.doc&ved=2ahUKEwjFxeGt-M6HAxUGZkEAHRh4BL8QFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2hrJTpzsPoRv556l0NkNUS