Author Topic: PCN With Motorbike But Council appears to say Free Parking  (Read 248 times)

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C_H_R_I_S

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PCN With Motorbike But Council appears to say Free Parking
« on: September 22, 2023, 04:16:30 pm »
I parked my motorbike in a bay in hounslow (which accoriding to their website is free:

Where you can park
You can park your solo motorcycle (two-wheeler) for free within the borough at the below locations. Please note that because we still use paper permits you are currently exempt from having to display a permit.

in a dedicated motorcycle bays on-street or in our car parks.

in any resident bay/shared use bay, although we ask that you park at an angle to the kerb (where the width of the bay allows this).



Where you can't park

on the pavement (unless there's a motorcycle parking bay there)

on yellow lines


I parked my bike here and was given an 11u - parked without payment of the parking charge.

I guess its fairly obvious this should be appealed as bikes park free?!
The only thing is it was a 2hour max which I actually didnt see. But regardless they have given the wrong contravention code.

EDIT::::::
AFTER HEARING SOME COMMENTS I REALISE P&D Bay may not be free..

Is it now a lost cause ? 
:'(

Here are some pics to help:






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cp8759

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Re: PCN With Motorbike But Council appears to say Free Parking
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2023, 12:47:20 am »
So here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/tQ85FYn1EJBXiCNG9

I've requested the traffic order, as the council's traffweb is a bit rubbish and won't provide it.

Please give us a link to the web page you're referring to.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

SouthLondoner123

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Re: PCN With Motorbike But Council appears to say Free Parking
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2023, 08:08:19 am »
Hammersmith & Fulham, Merton and Wandsworth are other councils that let motorcycles park for free.

The Wandsworth wording is very similar, possibly a bit more explicit:
Quote
https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/parking/parking-bays/motorcycle-parking/
Motorcycles can park in any permit holder or shared use (permit holder and pay and display) bay without displaying a permit or pay and display ticket.

Motorcycles should be parked in a sensible manner that reduces the impact on parking space for other vehicles (at the end of bays where possible).

They should be parked within a bay and at 90 degrees to the kerb, except where the gradient/camber of the road does not allow it, or an obstruction could be caused to traffic.

Please note motorcycles are not permitted to park in pay and display only (shopper) bays without a valid pay and display ticket.

There are also a number of solo motorcycle bays throughout the borough.

than the Hounslow one:

Quote
https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/info/20104/parking_in_hounslow/1125/parking_on_the_street/6
Where you can park

You can park your solo motorcycle (two-wheeler) for free within the borough at the below locations. Please note that because we still use paper permits you are currently exempt from having to display a permit.

    in a dedicated motorcycle bays on-street or in our car parks.
     
    in any resident bay/shared use bay, although we ask that you park at an angle to the kerb (where the width of the bay allows this).

Where you can't park

    on the pavement (unless there's a motorcycle parking bay there)
     
    on yellow lines


The Wandsworth website states clearly that you cannot park for free in a pay & display only.
The Hounslow website doesn't.
If you have time you might probably find how other councils worded their rules.

I'd base a challenge on this: the section "where you can't park" of the Hounslow website does NOT mention "pay & display only" bays.
And take a dated screenshot of the website in case they change it.

To be clear, I have no idea what your odds are.

You might want to search https://londontribunals.org.uk/ -> view statutory registers -> environment and traffic -> search
or https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/key-cases
to see how similar appeals were treated.

cp8759

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Re: PCN With Motorbike But Council appears to say Free Parking
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2023, 03:39:27 pm »
I'd base a challenge on this: the section "where you can't park" of the Hounslow website does NOT mention "pay & display only" bays.
But you can park in pay & display only bays, you just have to pay.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

SouthLondoner123

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Re: PCN With Motorbike But Council appears to say Free Parking
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2023, 12:26:29 pm »
You are right. I had misread it. I mean, the Wandsworth wording is much clearer in spelling out that motorcycles cannot park for free in certain bays. The wording in question is probably legally OK but I can't shake off the feeling it was intentionally not made clearer so as to catch out some motorcyclists. But I doubt this will be a valid defence.

cp8759

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Re: PCN With Motorbike But Council appears to say Free Parking
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2023, 11:05:46 pm »
The London Borough of Hounslow (West Chiswick) (Parking Places) (No.13) Order 2009, the council says that the relevant items are 32 and 33 on page 24.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order