Author Topic: PCN Rivercourt road 52M  (Read 3543 times)

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PCN Rivercourt road 52M
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Turned left off a 40mph Busy A road which ive used for years
Turns out there is now a tiny sign there AFTER the turn saying you cant unless you have a resident permit!

What is happening to our roads these days! :'(  >:(

Images of PCN:





Coordinates of turn - Google Not updated with latest sign post: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4913991,-0.2365586,3a,75y,95.37h,83.83t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9upYEORyBaITDvU1DLs9iQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D6.174312605000438%26panoid%3D9upYEORyBaITDvU1DLs9iQ%26yaw%3D95.36975487709302!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

My reason to appeal would be insufficient signage but im not sure how to word it or add anything else.
I am willing to go to court for this as the restriction is ridiculous and the signage even worse.

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Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #1 on: »

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #2 on: »
H&F is often forgiving of a first time PCN for moving traffic contraventions at newish restrictions so a polite ask may do it plus a note about signage.

Were you going anywhere local?

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote
I am willing to go to court for this as the restriction is ridiculous and the signage even worse.
There is no "court", but you can take them to London Tribunals. The restriction may be ridiculous to you, but will be within a Traffic Regulation Order, so saying it is ridiculous will not win any appeal. However the council have a duty under LATOR Regulation 8 to place adequate signage to indicate the restriction.

Note that the signage is not "tiny", but quite large, and there are normally two of them one each side of the restriction. For access off this very busy road, the council should have placed an advance warning sign on the main road, so is there one there ?

The video shows you charging in at quite a pace so it seems clear you didn't notice the signs, that are commonly called "Flying motorbike " signs, because there is a diagram of a motorbike above that for a car. It seems to me that this is what caught you out: -
Quote
Turned left off a 40mph Busy A road which ive used for years

Anyway, if you can confirm whether there is any advance warning sign, please, as GSV is not sufficiently up-to-date it seems.

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #4 on: »
How many times have you driven over this road since dec 1st 2024 ? Been told that 1st offence is being let off with a warning .

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #5 on: »
This is the signage at the entrance of the road. To my knowledge no other permanent signs on the main road leading to this.

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« Last Edit: January 06, 2025, 10:59:48 pm by Raj »

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #6 on: »
Having now looked at GSV September 2024, it seems there are no signs warning of the upcoming restriction, which for a 40 mph road is quite disgraceful, so I suggest you submit representations that the signage for this restriction is totally inadequate. The only approach is a left turn from the Great West Road (A4), which has a speed limit of 40 mph, and there is no warning whatsoever of the restriction on approach.

The previous street on the left, Weltje Road is only an exit with No Entry signs, but here, the junction has been remodelled to only allow exit, the entry space has been removed and the footway extended: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5Axt1bfRHjvQUA7a6
In addition, the No Entry signs are clearly visible on approach, so advance warning is not so important.

It is quite clear here that the council have failed in their duty under LATOR Regulation 18, to place adequate signage for the restriction. This may be because signage on the Great West Road is the responsibility of Transport for London, and the council have failed to involve TfL in the signing of this restriction, or indeed, to even engage in consultations with them in accordance with LATOR Regulation 6

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/contents
« Last Edit: January 07, 2025, 12:09:49 am by Incandescent »

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #7 on: »
Google and Apple Maps haven’t updated yet. This new road layout is setup around the end of nov 2024 I believe.
https://www.hammersmithsociety.org.uk/rivercourt-road-a-new-two-way-ltn/.
Another point of appeal could be the lack of new turning circle/ bay for reversing out of the road. But for this argument, footage of subject pausing at the entrance or attempts to turn back would prove a strong case.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2025, 07:48:34 am by Raj »

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #8 on: »
Has the OP posted the video?


Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #9 on: »
Has the OP posted the video?
No, but I looked at it using the info on the PCN, and it shows the OP driving in without any hesitation.

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #10 on: »
Correct I have drove down this road many times.

Attempting to reverse and turn out of that road would be extremely dangerous and is a very good point.

I have informally emailled them asking for a warning instead but otherwise will mention the non existent warnings and the inadequate signage at entrance

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #11 on: »
if nothing works perhaps you could appeal stating you haven't received a warning letter for the 1st contravention as the council did confirm that 1st timers are being letoff with a warning letter.

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #12 on: »
Using an iPad I simply get two photos but no video.

OP, I want to see the complete layout of signs located at the entrance. Your photo suggests a traffic sign restricting the entry of lorries above four associated plates, the flying motorcycle sign and what appears to be another 'zone' sign (I can just make out the end of 'zone').

How a motorist would be expected to take in all this info, I don't know.

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #13 on: »
totally agree with @H C Andersen. this system is not viable as it stands. warning signs should be on the A4 regarding this and also a turning circle should be built incase people have to turn away.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2025, 04:46:48 pm by Raj »

Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« Reply #14 on: »
Hi, I posted on the original thread about being served with a PCN for a "contravention" on 21.12.24.
I found Raj's very helpful information about their experience, so I've sent an email to Parking Services to request that the PCN is revoked as their own website referred to first time contraventions leading to a warning notice and that's clearly what they did for other motorists.
And of course I've also mentioned the completely inadequate/non-existent warnings/ signage on the A4 ahead of the turn into Rivercourt Road.
I'll let you know how I get on.
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