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PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction

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PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
on:
#1
This was one of those where I must admit I didn`t even realise I was in a yellow box junction at all. It`s not even a case where there was no space up ahead; there was plenty of space for my car.

Once I realised it was a yellow box I moved forward but they did not provide this footage.

Is there ground to appeal this? or should i bite the bullet?





https://streamable.com/ahr5je





Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #2 on:
#3
The contravention occurs when you enter a yellow box such that you have to stop due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

I don’t know why you stopped, but the video shows that it doesn’t seem to have been due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

Therefore the contravention did not occur.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/9/part/7/paragraph/11
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #3 on:
#4
I can't agree with a view which says that it's unarguable that there was enough room beyond the box before hitting the car in front.

IMO, it's arguable that there was room for you to exit. But IMO it is not so obvious that this won't be disputed and that an adjudicator might find that because the nuisance the prohibition is targeting was clearly created by the OP, the balance is in the council's favour. 

OP, in your reps IMO you must put it to the council that there was room for you to exit, but you chose not to..and test their reasoning. You might say that you didn't want to enter the crossing zig-zag area or whatever!
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #4 on:
#5
I can't agree with a view which says that it's unarguable that there was enough room beyond the box before hitting the car in front.

IMO, it's arguable that there was room for you to exit. But IMO it is not so obvious that this won't be disputed and that an adjudicator might find that because the nuisance the prohibition is targeting was clearly created by the OP, the balance is in the council's favour. 

OP, in your reps IMO you must put it to the council that there was room for you to exit, but you chose not to..and test their reasoning. You might say that you didn't want to enter the crossing zig-zag area or whatever!

Ambulance was coming at the back? ::)
Does anyone have any template for this please?
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #5 on:
#6
Ambulance was coming at the back?

Is there evidence of this on the council's full clip or anywhere?

Even if not, the keeper could still state that their stopping was a precautionary measure only..ambulance or whatever..and not necessitated by the presence of stationary vehicles: as the video shows, there was room for the driver to exit beyond the box at all times.

But your words. 

Each case is different, albeit with common themes, in this case a claim that there was room beyond the box at the moment the vehicle stopped, which was for other reasons, in this case.....
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #6 on:
#7
If of any help.....

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/redbridge31jentering-and-stopping-in-a-box-junction-when-prohibitedjct-ilford-la/msg99561/#msg99561

....where very  recently I had to construct a similar argument.

FYI - it's not the entire length of your vehicle that you need account for, rather just from front bumper to middle of the rear axle.

I'd visit the site in person and measure/take some pictures to backup your case.
Last Edit: August 19, 2026, 05:09:29 pm by NTIAEP
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #7 on:
#8
You can use distance measurer on googlemaps.  I think you had space up to the end of the third clearway chevron beyond the box.  On googlemaps, that's around 5.5 metres from the edge of the box junction markings.  I'm fairly confident your car will be at least 1 metre shorter than this.
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #8 on:
#9
Below Rep sent - let`s see what they come back with.

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally challenge Penalty Charge Noticeissued for an alleged 31j contravention (Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited) at Horns Road. Having reviewed the CCTV footage and consulted with others who have successfully contested PCNs at this exact junction, I am appealing on the grounds that the contravention did not legally occur, and due to compelling mitigating circumstances, for the following reasons:

1. The stop was due to an approaching Emergency Vehicle
Crucially, as I was navigating the junction, I observed an ambulance approaching from behind in my rear-view mirror. My momentary pause was a direct reaction to this emergency vehicle, as I was assessing the safest way to clear a path and ensure I did not obstruct its progress. Rule 219 of the Highway Code dictates that drivers must take appropriate action to let emergency vehicles pass. Therefore, I was not forced to stop purely due to stationary vehicles ahead, but rather I brought my vehicle to a halt as a necessary, safe, and legal reaction to an active emergency vehicle. It is entirely against the public interest to penalize a driver for reacting safely to an ambulance.

2. The alleged infringement is De Minimis
The footage demonstrates that my vehicle's presence in the box junction was entirely trivial. Only a fraction of the vehicle remained within the yellow markings, and it did not impede crossing traffic or negatively affect the flow of vehicles in any way. The fundamental purpose of a yellow box is to prevent a junction from being blocked. Because absolutely no obstruction occurred, this fleeting and minor positioning falls squarely under the legal principle of de minimis non curat lex. Adjudicators at the London Tribunals regularly cancel PCNs on this basis.

3. The stop was not necessitated by stationary vehicles
To legally establish this contravention under the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD), the authority must prove that the vehicle was forced to stop specifically due to the presence of stationary vehicles ahead. I submit that there was sufficient room ahead of my vehicle to move forward and clear the box markings, but I stopped short due to my reaction to the ambulance behind me. If a driver stops while there is still available space ahead, the stop is not legally forced by the stationary vehicles in front. I put you to strict proof to demonstrate that stationary traffic completely prevented my vehicle from moving forward into clear space.

Notice of Intent to Seek Costs
Given the minor nature of the stop, the availability of space ahead, and the compelling presence of an emergency vehicle, I respectfully request that you cancel this PCN immediately.

Please be advised that should the Council choose to reject these representations and force this matter to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators (London Tribunals), I will apply for an award of costs against Redbridge Council. Pursuing enforcement under these circumstances—and effectively penalizing a driver for yielding to an ambulance—would be wholly unreasonable, vexatious, and a misuse of the Tribunal's time.
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #9 on:
#10
Leave out the last paragraph, you've already wound them up enough. In fact, best to make sure all of your reps are not confrontational; you want them to concede willingly with adjudication only as a last resort.
Agree Agree x 1 View List
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #10 on:
#11
Redbridge has refused the appeal stating that
1- The contravention did occur
2- There was insufficient space beyond the box for my vehicle to clear the markings completely.
3- I stopped because there was a vehicle ahead and I was not able to proceed.
4- They have reviewed CCTV footage and there was no ambulance.

They have offered me an option to proceed with Adjudicators.

They have made a typo where instead of seeking £80, they are seeking £8000  >:(







Last Edit: September 27, 2026, 12:01:58 am by andy_foster
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #12 on:
#13
Wow  "pay the outstanding amount of £8000"!

The more serious issue is the conflation of service and delivery. I admit it is funny but this will not win the case at the Tribunal.
@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #13 on:
#14
It seems to me like the white car had quite a lot of room in front of it, enough to stop clear of the yellow box. Is there a video of the incident?
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Re: PCN Redbridge 31j Horns Road - Yellow Box Junction
Reply #14 on:
#15
Folks apologies for this - It`s the first time i`ve done that mistake of hijacking a thread. I remember when updating my thread I had a db connection error -
Is it possible for the mods to merge this thread to https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-redbridge-31j-horns-road-yellow-box-junction/ which is the original thread?

Thank you


EDIT: Done.
Last Edit: September 28, 2026, 08:30:52 am by John U.K.