3. PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
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PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
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Hello Experts,

I have received a PCN on Portland Road, Kingston which is only for parking permit holders. I had gone there only temporarily to meet a friend, could someone advise if it can be represented.

Thanks

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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #1 on: »
Here?

The photos don't show any evidence of any bay markings, nor do they show where the sign is in relation to the car:









Did you just not know about the restrictions? Did you see any signs?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #2 on: »
Hi, Thanks for the reply. I saw the signs, I was keeping an eye on the car as I was only there temporarily but it happened, I even saw the officer and requested but he had already put the ticket.
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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #3 on: »
Looks like the markings are faded?

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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #4 on: »
Those could equally be bird poo markings, they're not bay markings in any meaningful sense and they're definitely nowhere near substantially compliant. Here's a draft representation:

Dear Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames,

I challenge liability because the alleged contravention did not occur. The photos taken by the civil enforcement officer clearly show that there are no visible bay markings, let alone substantially compliant bay markings. It follows that the contravention did not occur and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

The council might reject but I think there's strong grounds to take this all the way to the tribunal, the markings should have been repainted years ago.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #5 on: »
Thanks a lot for the draft representation, I have now challenged the PCN, will keep you posted on the outcome.
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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi, I have received reply for the representation, they have rejected it, Please find the letter attached.

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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: dk007 on July 10, 2023, 06:36:26 am
Hi, Thanks for the reply. I saw the signs, I was keeping an eye on the car as I was only there temporarily but it happened, I even saw the officer and requested but he had already put the ticket.
So, essentially, you chanced your arm, hoping a CEO wouldn't come along, and lost. Normally for parking in such places, you have to get a visitor permit from the resident; why didn't you ?
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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #8 on: »
Well, if they admit the CEO photos don't confirm the presence of bay markings that's the nail in the coffin for their case really. If the CEO photos don't show any markings and they haven't supplied any other photos showing them, how can they possibly know that the markings are there?

There are three possible explanations:

1) The author of the rejection has personally visited the location and seen the markings for himself,
2) The author of the rejection has some photos which he's not seen fit to share with you, or
3) The author of the rejection has no idea whether the markings are there or not and he's just made it up.

Call me a cynic but I very much suspect it's option 3.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #9 on: »
Hi, what should be the next course of action on this, have not received any Notice to owner yet.
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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: dk007 on September 05, 2023, 10:48:52 pm
Hi, what should be the next course of action on this, have not received any Notice to owner yet.

Are you the registered keeper and does your V5C have your current details?(NTOs are sent to the registered keeper as per DVLA records).

If yes, then wait for the NTO, they have 6 months in which to serve.

You or your friend take more photos of the carriageway at the location. Not skewed, but genuine. Their whole case as regards the contravention rests on the 'bay' being sufficiently well marked to indicate to a diligent driver that parking restrictions applied.
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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #11 on: »
I know it's not universally accepted at tribunal but this is a permit bay not a residents bay so should be code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without displaying a valid permit The rejection acknowledges the permit bay so this argument is strengthened
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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #12 on: »
Hello,

I have now received the NTO. Please find it attached here.

Thanks

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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #13 on: »
NTO last page and a recent picture from the Portland road where the car was parked. They are not visible for a long distance. After few cars distance from this, there are some visible bay markings.

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Re: PCN received on a parking permit road, Portland Road, Kingston
« Reply #14 on: »
I'd be minded to just make the same representation again.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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