Author Topic: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council  (Read 2041 times)

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PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
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Hello,

[X-Post from Pepipoo]

My car was apparently parked in a Loading Only bay. It is a standard car. The signage shows that the restrictions are from 0600hrs - 1800hrs, the ticket was issued at 1748hrs; 12 minutes before the restrictions ended.

What is the best method of fighting this, or should the ticket just be paid? I can appeal the ticket, which honors the discount period.

GSV: Google Street View

NOTE: The restrictions sign is much lower than it shows on Google, unsure if that makes any difference. The sign is just above where the lamppost goes narrows.

Front of PCN


Back of PCN


I have been advised that the PCN is flawed due to not being complaint to:

The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022
Quote
CHAPTER 1
Information to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices
Information about right to make representations or appeal to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices
3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;
(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;
©that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

Is the following enough for a informal appeal, and what are the chances of success?

Quote
Dear Hereford Council,

I am appealing PCN: XXXX due to the PCN not following the requirements stated under the Road Traffic Contraventions of 2022. Not following the mandatory requirements is a procedural impropriety under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and therefor the PCN is required to be cancelled.

The PCN fails to meet Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1), Paragraph C. Below is the extract of this requirement for ease of reference.

"that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner."

As the PCN from Hereford Council fails to confirm to this requirement; the PCN hasn't been issued according to the correct standards and therefor should be immediately canceled.

Kind regards,
« Last Edit: February 04, 2024, 09:17:14 pm by FaintPanda »

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Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #1 on: »
incorrect standards. Re chances of success: ask the SAS.

I would simply state the PCN is substantially non-compliant because:

The PCN does not contain the following mandatory information as stated under the Road Traffic Contraventions of 2022. Not following the mandatory requirements is a procedural impropriety under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and therefor the PCN is required to be cancelled.

The PCN fails to meet Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1), Paragraph C. Below is the extract of this requirement for ease of reference.

"that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner."

Please cancel.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2024, 09:27:25 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #2 on: »
Needs full title of the regulations

Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #3 on: »
Oh hello there Incandescent! Thanks for your help with this on Pepipoo! I will fire off this appeal unless there are any other adjustments I need to make.

Quote
Dear Hereford Council,

I am appealing PCN: XXXX due to the PCN not including mandatory information defined within the Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) Regulations 2022. Not following the mandatory requirements is a procedural impropriety under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and therefor the PCN is required to be cancelled.

The PCN fails to meet Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1), Paragraph C. Below is the extract of this requirement for ease of reference.

"that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner."

As the PCN fails to meet the mandatory requirements I kindly request that this PCN is immediately canceled.

@Hippo
Quote
Re chances of success: ask the SAS.

 ;D  ;D  ;D  - I am sure they have more important things going on than dealing with the local council!

Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #4 on: »
@FaintPanda don't send that, we can do much, much better.

To understand why, have a read of these cases:

Mary Harding v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2160271291, 26 July 2016)
Yuriy Myronovyh V The City Of Edinburgh Council (ED00154-2107, 04 October 2021)
Robert Piatt v Manchester City Council (MC00876-2010, 15 October 2020)

However before we even get to that, we want to know if a contravention is made out, whether there's a traffic order and so on. To that end, please give us the PCN number and the number plate, and a link to the exact location on google street view.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #5 on: »

Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #6 on: »
Were you the driver? This is council land so there's no purpose served in referring to 'driver' in the third person.

Have you looked at the photos? If it's your car, then it is.

The sign limits parking to buses and goods vehicles at specified times. Your standard car is neither.

Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #7 on: »
@cp8759

I was taking a read though the sources you posted, Mary Harding's case is very similar to mine. She won on the grounds that the PCN wasn't clear that she had parked in a loading only bay, only that she:

Quote
being parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle.

She won because the PCN didn't contain enough information

Quote
A motorist reading the PCN would not understand from the wording the
nature of the alleged contravention because there is nothing to explain the
class of vehicle for which the parking place was designated. The PCN
needs to identify, whether by wording or images, that the class of vehicle
for which the bay is designated is goods vehicles only.
I therefore find that the PCN was invalid and the appeal is allowed for that
reason.

I also see that Robert won on a very similar point

Quote
I therefore find that the contravention code used was deficient in that the suffix was not used. If the
suffix had been used together with the words “goods vehicle loading bays” it would have been more
clear to the driver what he had done wrong. I therefore agree with Mr that there was a
procedural impropriety.

Seems as I have ready submitted my appeal, which I suspect they will reject, am I still in a good position to add the following points above at the next stage?

Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #8 on: »
All you've done so far is submit an informal challenge. These invariably result in a Fob-Off letter. Why ? Because councils know that if they issue such letters, most people (like over 95%), just cough-up.

Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #9 on: »
It looks like the council website won't show the photos until you have a web code, which you get with the notice to owner. You can raise any additional points at the next stage, so don't send anything off without getting us to check it properly first.

I'm sure the council will reject, but in the meantime I have ordered the traffic regulation order for the bay. Are you the registered keeper, do you have the V5C, and is the address up to date?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #10 on: »
Out of interest, how did you order the traffic order for the bay? Did you just email Hereford council?

I am the Registered Keeper. The V5C document has my mother's address on, but she let's me know if any post turns up.

Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #11 on: »
Did you just email Hereford council?
I made a specifically crafted EIR request.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #13 on: »
I haven't heard anything back from Hereford council and it had now been 14 days since I sent the appeal off to them.

According to their own appeals process, they should have reached out if they are unable to respond within 10 working days. How much weight does this hold?

The Council will aim to reply to all correspondence within 10 working days of receipt.
If a full reply cannot be sent in that time an acknowledgement letter will be sent within five days of receipt.

https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/downloads/file/13369/parking-supplementary-enforcement-and-appeals-policy

Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
« Reply #14 on: »
?
OP, I think you and the council need to update your references and policies!

As regards the council's processes, what you've posted is incorrect, their website (https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/parking-1/parking-fines/2) states:

While we do aim to reply to all challenges within 14 days this can be delayed at times of high volume and demand. Please do not re-challenge a PCN once you have challenged as this will push your response further down the challenge list and cause further delays.

Once we receive a challenge to a notice, we'll put that notice on hold until we have responded.

If a challenge is received within 14 days of the date the Penalty Charge Notice was issued and is unsuccessful, a further 14 days will be given for you to pay at the discounted amount.


And then we have its 'parking fines appeals and representations protocols'!

Herefordshire Council
Parking Enforcement & Appeals –
Operational Guidance
Date: October 2018
Updated: January 2022

Version: 1.6

Each page then refers to 'Version 1.5', doh!
This draws on the Secretary of State's 'Operational and Statutory Guidance', but they've taken their eye off the ball because the Operational Guidance was withdrawn in October 2022 at the same time that the Statutory Guidance was updated and republished as a single document.

Therefore, the council's policy is out of date and they have committed a procedural impropriety by virtue of not complying with S87 Traffic Management Act which states:
 
S87
Guidance to local authorities
(1)The appropriate national authority may publish guidance to local authorities about any matter relating to their functions in connection with the civil enforcement of traffic contraventions.

(2)In exercising those functions a local authority must have regard to any such guidance.


In the context of this case, the most glaring error is the council's failure to attach a suffix code to the contravention grounds which is now required by virtue of Annex B to the Stat Guidance:

Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle.   Suffix required to fully describe contravention.

I suspect the wording of the PCN omits specific reference to the owner having to make representations within the period specified in the NTO because their policy is to halt progress of a PCN until a response has been sent. IMO, this isn't a justifiable reason but it might explain the omission.