Author Topic: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings  (Read 1056 times)

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PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
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Hey folks,
I received a PCN for parking in a permit zone without presenting a valid permission. Some observations:

1. The road has no markings to indicate that where I was parked is a bay.
2. Is the second character on a UK number plate usually a letter? The PCN was given with a 0 rather than an O since I attempted to enter into the Redbridge PCN site and had to replace the letter O with a 0.
3. I believe the permits in this area were introduced earlier this year, and I have noted on adjacent roads that there are permit signs but no bays marked.

Do I have any grounds to appeal here?

I have attached photos and the PCN notice in a folder in below:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tr-rRt2NFHOAiTSqvsU6ITkQULyWNnxh?usp=sharing

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Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #1 on: »
The 0/O is interesting as if you'd made that mistake it is deemed too trivial to enforce. But they can't change the details on the PCN - or can they in this instance?

The lack of bay markings is a good shout provided it is not a permit parking zone - not sure as Google Maps too old to show this. There are zones that just say permit parking beyond this point and require no bay markings. 

The PCN is quite badly out of registration.






« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 08:57:55 pm by stamfordman »
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Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #2 on: »
I'm not a pro on this (am sure you'll get a more related response in respect to teh contravention), but I'd appeal that on the simple grounds (not sure the exact one) but along the lines of the PCN is incorrect, as I had a similar case years ago, where it was printed like this and they cancelled it.
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Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #3 on: »
Hey folks, thank you for the responses :)

In point no. 3 in my OP, I'd like to correct this point. I recall on some of the adjacent roads their are some marked bays near the high road end but then no bays further down these roads. Their are junctions between the entire length of these roads.

Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #4 on: »
@stamfordman @LondonTraveller84
Could the terrible registration of the PCN be grounds for an appeal? Also, if the 0/O is incorrectly registered on the PCN, does this not make the PCN invalid? What could happen if I ignored the PCN, for example, as the vehicle registration does not exist? That said, I would appreciate it if somebody else could eyeball/verify the 0/O is as I say? I don't want to look like a muppet, haha :)

Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #5 on: »
On the zone, there does not need to be bay markings if the entrance has a sign like this:



I think the PCN is sufficiently badly out of sync to challenge on this.

The 0/O - well if the wrong VRM is hardcoded into their system and is used to get DVLA details it will fail I would have thought. But if they rekey it maybe they are entitled to correct the 0 to an O.

But both grounds can be raised and also the bay markings - can you go back and see what signage is in place at the entrance to the road?

Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #6 on: »
@stamfordman
I'll try to drive to the location later this afternoon and get some more photos of any nearby notice/signage at the entrance of the road.

Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #7 on: »
You can see the permit area is the hatched part of the map I posted. It extends only partially up Westwood Road. There should be zone entry and zone ends signs at both ends.
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Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #8 on: »
The PCN is defective.
It is not a motorist's task to join up the council's dots or move b****y figures around a page into blank spaces in order to discover the penalty charges etc.

It's c**p and I couldn't see the authority resisting this.
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Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #9 on: »
@H C Andersen
Thank you for the feedback.
I'll draft a response and post it here for review before making representation.

Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #10 on: »
@stamfordman
I visited the location and found the below sign at the beginning of the road.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/151rVvyLnOwMy6mbm1TtFoGxVVnIAcQpD/view?usp=sharing

BTW, what is the easiest way to embed images in a thread? I've tried using the image option above and pasting in the URL but it does not seem to appear.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2024, 10:58:39 am by bigred247 »

Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #11 on: »
Hi folks,

I have drafted the template below but will wait for your feedback before making representations.


Quote
PCN Number: [Insert PCN Number]
Vehicle Registration Number: [Insert VRN]

To whom it may concern,

I am submitting a formal challenge to the above PCN issued on [Date], based on the following grounds:

 1. Faults in PCN Registration
The PCN itself appears to be poorly registered, containing errors that obscure clear interpretation of the charges. These inaccuracies hinder my ability to accurately understand and respond to the notice, potentially rendering the PCN invalid. Given the significant impact of these registration errors on my legal right to respond, I believe this alone is sufficient reason for cancellation.

 2. Incorrect Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM)
The PCN lists my vehicle’s registration with the character ‘0’ instead of the letter ‘O’. This discrepancy has made it difficult to locate the PCN online and does not match my vehicle’s officially registered VRM. An incorrect VRM may invalidate the PCN, as it could prevent accurate retrieval of DVLA details and further obstruct my right to respond accurately.

 3. Unclear Signage
At the time of parking, I did not see any clear signage indicating the requirement for a permit, as the nearest sign was positioned at the edge of the road and may have been obscured by parked vehicles. In a recent case (Ref: 2240393985, adjudicated on 7 May 2024), an appeal was upheld due to insufficient evidence of adequate and compliant signage. I believe similar circumstances apply here.

In light of these points, I respectfully request the cancellation of the PCN.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.


Yours faithfully,
[Your Name]
« Last Edit: November 23, 2024, 03:15:07 pm by bigred247 »

Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #12 on: »
I would add something on unclear signage - your pic shows a sign at edge of road and in that case possibly obscured by a van. Is there a sign on the other side.

And also in the light of this case adjudicated yesterday.

But they should cancel on the duff PCN. I would put that as the first ground.

---------------

2240393985
Contravention date 07 May 2024
Contravention location WESTWOOD ROAD

The appellant claims that there is a lack of signage and road markings and he was not aware he parked in a permit holders’ bay. He does not dispute parking at the location but states there were no visible signs.
The Enforcement Authority has not sufficiently addressed signage and has not provided a site map or clear photographs of the vehicle in context with signage.
On balance, there is insufficient evidence to persuade me that signage was clear, adequate and compliant. I allow the appeal. No penalty is payable.

-----------

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Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #13 on: »
@stamfordman
I have just updated my template response. What do you think?
I'll also double-check to see if a sign was on the other side of the road. I do recall seeing one, but I live around the corner, so I will eyeball it again.

Re: PCN - Redbridge - parking in a permit zone with no road markings
« Reply #14 on: »
I wouldn't worry too much about signage as it's not your main ground. But it would be useful to see signage at both ends of this zone as this is an unusual layout. Usually permit parking areas control a dead end road or set of such roads. Here we have a section of a through-road blocked off as a PPA. They could also have created a controlled parking zone for roads in this area, which would be more usual even if controls end part way up a road.
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