Author Topic: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)  (Read 297 times)

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C_H_R_I_S

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PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« on: November 17, 2024, 04:23:38 pm »
So I parked in Romford on a pavement that had pavement markings on a sunday at 9am

This was a very residential road with no parking signs and just small markings on pavement that you could also park there.

Because there was a car opposite where i was parked and the road was narrow I moved my car slightly over the pavement parkings but leaving easily enough room for people to walk by it on the pavement.

I came back to this PCN







Parking Location:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6081408,0.1602629,3a,75y,63.61h,87.23t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZIT6_vAFKQr7bYwW9F-EQA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D2.774080219905059%26panoid%3DZIT6_vAFKQr7bYwW9F-EQA%26yaw%3D63.60859777927444!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExMy4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D





I literally just parked on a sunday thinking it was ok and was shocked to see this pcn.

These would be my 4 points of argument so far:


Necessary Adjustment Due to Road Conditions:
On the day in question, there was a car parked on the opposite side of the road, leaving insufficient space for other vehicles to pass. To ensure traffic could flow safely, I positioned my car slightly further onto the footway. This adjustment was made out of necessity and with consideration for other road users.

Lack of Clear Signage:
While I acknowledge the presence of footway parking markings, there were no visible signs indicating that vehicles must be strictly within the lines at all times. The absence of explicit guidance on this matter creates ambiguity, especially for slight positioning adjustments like mine.

Day of Incident:
The PCN was issued on a Sunday, a day when traffic is generally lighter and enforcement is typically less stringent in some areas. This further supports my decision to park considerately, prioritizing road safety over strict adherence to the markings.

Minimal Impact:
My vehicle was only slightly outside the marked area and did not obstruct pedestrian pathways or create any safety hazards.



What do you think of my case?

Thankyou!


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John U.K.

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2024, 05:20:58 pm »
First thoughts: you are not receiving a PCN for not parking within the markings, so why mention it?
You have a PCN for parking on the footway, which is allowed at this location.

Please to post up any Council photos (most likely will not appear on their site until tomorrow or Tuesday).

You may well need to see the Council resolution disapplying the London-wide ban on footway parking, and any traffic order about markings.

Wait for the experts to comment (I am not one), but on the current evidence  + the council photos I'd go for a simple challenge on the lines of:

The contravention alleged did not occcur: as can be seen from your own photographs, footway parking is allowed at this location.
I look forward to your early cancellation of this PCN.


EDIT:

Looking at GSV again I do not see any signage allowing footway parking, but the white line and the historic views show that '2-up' parking has been tolerated for years, creating legitimate expectation of non-enforcement..
« Last Edit: November 17, 2024, 05:26:58 pm by John U.K. »
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mickR

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2024, 11:09:35 pm »
2008 view shows pavement marking. but not on road
2012 parts on markings tarmacked over
2014 shows markings reinstated on pavement.
still nothing on road.
very odd but why reinstate markings if they aren't to be used??
 

Incandescent

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2024, 12:20:30 am »
Quote
To ensure traffic could flow safely, I positioned my car slightly further onto the footway. This adjustment was made out of necessity and with consideration for other road users.
Reading this, I take it that your car was not positioned within the markings but further onto the footway. The council photos will show this if the CEO has taken any.  I suspect this will be the reason for the PCN.
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C_H_R_I_S

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2024, 12:49:03 pm »
Yes  that is the reason.
But 1. no signage saying they have to be strictly adhered to
2. No signage saying inspectors were active
3. I had to move the car slighhtly over due to car on other side of road

stamfordman

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2024, 12:50:37 pm »
What is the car VRM. You've blanked it.

Or post the council pics yourself.

H C Andersen

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2024, 01:47:31 pm »
OP, let's cut to the chase so that we can focus pl.

On the day in question, there was a car parked on the opposite side of the road, leaving insufficient space for other vehicles to pass. To ensure traffic could flow safely

Then don't park there at all..would be an adjudicator's response. Forget this.

While I acknowledge the presence of footway parking markings

Really? Where would you find these in the Traffic Signs etc. Regs?

They are merely white paint, end of. Absent a regulatory sign to give (or purport to give) these markings legal effect then they are paint without a purpose.

Parking on the footway in London is a statutory prohibition which cannot be varied by splashing paint on the road.

The signs are items 12-15 in the Part 2 table here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

Item 14 is the only one which could apply and only if used varied as per Variant no. 2.

So, send a FoI request to the council, NOT parking.

I refer to the markings on the footway as can be seen in the attached GSV screenshots. I should be grateful if you would advise me as to their purpose and, if in connection with a disapplication of the London-wide statutory footway parking prohibition, the location of the nearest mandatory traffic signs which alone convey the meaning of these markings to motorists and a copy of the council resolution which authorised the parking of vehicles in this manner. For your information, s15 Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 refers.

As regards your challenge, I'd simply say that you believed that parking with two wheels on the footway, as you did, was permitted at the location. 

C_H_R_I_S

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2024, 02:36:33 pm »
What is the car VRM. You've blanked it.

Or post the council pics yourself.

ls67usb

I tried to get the pics but it brought me to a council shopping basket  >:(

stamfordman

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2024, 03:06:26 pm »
Pictures aren't up yet -I'll check later.

Can you please post the back of the PCN.

C_H_R_I_S

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2024, 04:27:54 pm »
Pictures aren't up yet -I'll check later.

Can you please post the back of the PCN.



Here you go

C_H_R_I_S

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2024, 05:16:58 pm »
Still no photos up but it could be they didnt take any?

stamfordman

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2024, 05:24:10 pm »
On another case Havering has just put pics up after about a week so maybe on their way but I would use their contact form to ask as this is one where we need to see them. I'm sure they were taken.

C_H_R_I_S

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2024, 12:16:08 pm »
Photos are now up:





You can see other cars parked there.
I am further in but you can just about see another car parked on opposite side of road which would have led to narrow space if I didnt move in.

Theres no law saying be exactly within markings or your fined as far as I can see.

Please help with this appeal wording if you can!

Thanks

Incandescent

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2024, 01:02:19 pm »
Having now seen their photos, I think you'll struggle with this, but we need to see what signs are present for allowing off-carriageway parking, before final advice can be given.

stamfordman

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Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2024, 01:53:28 pm »
There may well be a resolution disapplying the footway ban here.

The 2-up bays are marked on Havering's traffic order map.

Authorities should apply a lower level penalty where that can apply - here parking outside bay markings is such a lower level (£60) penalty. Which is a lot less than £110.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2024, 02:27:13 pm by stamfordman »