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I received a PCN for parking in Weybourne street, London Borough of Wandsworth


This is the google maps link https://maps.app.goo.gl/XkycVgcVhTD8x5Q1A

The Wimbledon stadium is ca. 0.7 miles from there. There are "event day parking restrictions".

One thing I found confusing is the wording: e.g. Fulham calls it "match day restrictions" but "event day" makes me think of some other kind of event.
Anyway, there was no warning nearby about what kind of event they were referring to, and it wasn't clear to me at the time they were talking about football matches - otherwise a quick google search would have confirmed that the day in question was a match day.

Can I challenge the PCN because:

   1) the council has not proven they had warned the day was an event day (an appeal was won on this basis, see below)
   2)  according to their website, the sign should have been placed 600 metres away, and it's not reasonable to expect folks to check the council website, identify where the signs should have been placed, then walk or drive there just to check ? An appeal was won (see below) because A motorist parking in a shared use bay cannot be expected to know where to find details of event days.


Any advice would be most appreciated!

The front and rear of the PCNs are:




The sign was


I found this page explaining the council rules:
https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/parking/parki...y-restrictions/

The road in question is part of the L2 zone. Coming from north of the river, the closest sign should have been between Garratt Lane and Magdalene road.
This is about 600 metres away , but it is by the Earlsfield train station, so it's impossible to park there, and I would argue it would not be very reasonable to expect people to either walk 600 metres to check the signs, or drive back next to a busy station in the hope of finding the sign (should one just stop to read holding the traffic?)

Searching this forum I have found the following cases which might be relevant:
I can't post direct links, but one can go here
https://londontribunals.org.uk/ -> view statutory registers -> environment and traffic -> search
and search for the case number

case 2170158069 The time plate for this bay does not provide motorists with any information about event days. It does not refer the motorist to CPZ signs or to the website for details of event days. A motorist parking in a shared use bay cannot be expected to know where to find details of event days.
[...]
I therefore find that the signage was not adequate and I allow the appeal for that reason.

case 2160382372 I find that the Authority has not proved that on 4 June 2016 there were actually Controlled Parking Zone signs with the date of the event on the 4 June 2016 recorded on the lower panel.

Third, I find that the Authority should have produced stronger evidence that supports their case, which is that there are sufficient Controlled Parking signs at the entry points

Fourth, I have found the Appellant's evidence to be stronger than that of the Authority's.

Taking these matters together I find that this contravention is not proved.

The appeal is allowed.

I gwt "404 page not found" if I click on your link to the Wandsworth website.

We really do need to see this sign by the station. Will a GSV view show it ?

I went back and found this sign outside the station:




This mentions 5,9,16,30 September

HOWEVER

The Wandsworth website mentions 12 and 13 Oct 2023 (I had posted the image already, reposting here for simplicity):



I would argue that:

The fact that the information on the website contradicts the sign should, by itself, be reason enough to cancel the PCN!!!!!

A motorist can read that sign properly ONLY if they know where it is, AND if the traffic light happens to be red. Otherwise, it is simply impossible to read 12 lines of text while driving by, impossible. Time how long it takes you to read those 12 lines of text, and imagine if even only 1/3 of the drivers passing through there stopped, on an A road outside a train station, to read that - it would be chaos.

I cycled past with a dashcam; I could not read the whole sign while cycling. At home I watched the footage again - no chance of reading all of it. And this was at slower bicycle speeds.

Oh, and if someone parked where I parked were to drive back there to check the sign, they wouldn't see it going from south to north, they would need to do a u-turn at some point and go back south-bound. Mental.

Are TROs and TMOs the same thing?

Where would I find the related TRO/TMO?

The council publishes this: https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/road-safety/traffic-management-orders-tmos/
but I can't seem to find one related to the street where I parked.

@cp8759, that's amazing, thank you so much. Just for my understanding, how does one request a TMO / TRO? Is that something anyone can do, or only councillors / MPs?

I have submitted my challenge with the text below. Fingers crossed on next steps

------------------------

I believe your PCN is invalid for a multitude of reasons:

1)   As pointed out in case 2170158069 at the London Tribunals, which found the signage inadequate: “The time plate for this bay does not provide motorists with any information about event days. It does not refer the motorist to CPZ signs or to the website for details of event days. A motorist parking in a shared use bay cannot be expected to know where to find details of event days.” This was an appeal registered on 4/4/2017 and allowed against the London Borough of Newman, as can be seen at https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals . As per your pictures, the sign makes no mention of what is an event day, nor where to find that information, so this PCN is as invalid as that of case 2170158069.

2)   I later found this page on your website https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/parking/parking-zones/afc-wimbledon-stadium-event-day-restrictions/. The website mentions that, on event days, one can park for one hour only. The sign makes no mention of this. This inconsistency alone makes the sign, and my PCN, invalid.

3)   The website mentioned 12 and 13 Oct 2023 as next event days. The sign (which I later located to be very far away, see below) mentioned 5,9,16,30 September. This inconsistency alone makes the PCN invalid. Please note I have a time-stamped video recording of your website, should this be somehow changed after my challenge.

4)   I later learnt from your website that the sign should have been located outside Earlsfield station as Weybourne street is in the L2 zone. Why did you place a sign about 600 metres away, outside a busy station? A motorist parking there should  be expected… to do what, exactly? To leave the car there, check on your website where the sign should be, walk circa 1.2 kilometres (what if they have little kids?) during which time they can still be fined by an overzealous parking warden, to check the sign outside a train station? Or maybe drive there to check the sign, but, wait, it’s rightly impossible to park next to the train station, so should they maybe block the traffic till they locate and read the entire sign? Not to mention the sign is only visible driving southbound, so someone driving from Weybourne street would need to drive north beyond the sign, then do a u-turn to head back south! I cycled past that sign and have recorded footage with a dashcam: it contains 12 lines of text; it can be read ONLY by a motorist who knows where it is AND who happens to be stationary at a red light – there is NO realistic way to read it safely and properly otherwise. If every motorist stopped to read it, on an A road outside a train station, it would be chaos. 

5)   I appreciate that repeating the event day sign on every street is expensive and cumbersome, but the location you have choses is quite simply hideous. There is no way for motorists to read it properly and safely (see above). You could simply have a sign which refers to a section of your website. But that wouldn’t allow you to catch out as many motorists and wouldn’t produce the ca. £8m in PCN revenues Wandsworth enjoys every year, right?

6)   Wimbledon stadium is a minor, if not mostly unknown, football stadium more than a kilometre away. It is unreasonable to expect motorists to know that “event day” refers to events in that little known venue. Why not call it “match day”, like most councils do? Why not make a reference to Wimbledon stadium in the sign itself? “Event day” made me think of Tennis at Wimbledon.

7)   Lastly, even if providing a sign about event days in a location far away were adequate (it is not), I note you have not provided photographic evidence that a sign warning about the event day was, in fact, in place at the entrance to the CPZ. I verified a sign was there the following week, not on the day of the alleged contravention. I trust you will appreciate that photographic evidence is needed, and that a simple, unsubstantiated statement that the sign was there will, in fact, be insufficient. Failure to provide such evidence was the reason appeal 2160382372 was allowed on 9/9/2016 against the London Borough of Newman.

So, on 16 Sept. you parked in a parking place subject to, inter alia, 'event day' restrictions.

You were issued with a PCN for parking at a restricted time etc.

You have subsequently posted a photo of the CPZ sign you passed which states that 16 Sept.was a 'match day' and details the additional controls which apply. These were replicated on the sign where you parked.

The website is not primary material evidence: a driver must comply with traffic signs and your evidence shows they were in place. In any event, you only 'verified this later' so were not misled by conflicting info at the time.

As regards your challenge, each case turns on its own facts. You have referenced two contradictory decisions-such are the vagaries of adjudication- one based upon signs on CPZ gateway signs being evidence which an adjudicator would take into account(but they weren't convinced they were there) and another where such signs were not deemed sufficient even if present.

The current approach of adjudicators is, I believe, that signs on CPZ signs are acceptable in principle as they represent a practical balance between a council's duty and the logistical and financial burden which signing each parking place individually would present.

At present, your argument seems to hang on the difference between the words 'match days' and 'event days' but you acknowledge not being a total novice in these matters because you reference restrictions around Fulham's ground.

And as for the slur of 'Wimbledon stadium is a minor, if not mostly unknown, football stadium', it's one of the best supported clubs in League 2, or 1 for that matter, and like its predecessor has ambitions! And it's almost impossible to think that millions of people haven't heard of AFC Wimbledon given Alun Armstrong's regular references in 'New Tricks'.

Perhaps the TMO will reveal something.

@ H C Andersen

Not quite. My argument does not rest on the difference between "match day" and "event day" - that is one of the smallest arguments in the whole challenge.

My main points are those I had already mentioned, which I summarise below for clarity:

It is not reasonable to expect that a motorist parks there, checks the council website to see where the sign with event days is, then... does what? Leaves the car there and walks 1.2km back and forth, during which time the motorist can be fined? Or, having learnt where the sign is, drives back north towards the sign, then does a u-turn because the sign can be read only south-bound and... how can a motorist be expected to read a sign with 12 lines of text without stopping? And guess what, there is no stopping there, as it's a busy A road outside the train station. Please look at the sign, time yourself reading it, and tell me if you think a motorist can read that while driving by without stopping.

Yes, I get it, a council cannot update signs with event days on every road, BUT:

1) why can it not put a sign with something like "search Wandsworth parking restrictions event days"?

2) how is it more reasonable to expect a driver drives back there and stops in the middle of the road to read a sign with 12 lines of text?

3) how can you dismiss the fact that the website presents contradicting information on what the event days are, and what the restrictions are (the website says no parking for more than an hour, the sign doesn't)? Surely looking up the council website is sensible - or do you expect motorists to ask for the TMO because "the website is not primary material evidence"?

Lastly, mine was no slur, but a genuine comment.  For the record, I am not into football at all, but I do know that Chelsea is a tad more popular than Wimbledon and its stadium a tad more important, yet Hammersmith & Fulham is clearer in its signs, and also does not extend the parking restrictions on event days as far as 2 kms from the stadium - and, again this is for a much better-known stadium in a much more central location which attracts way more people. My point was simply that someone, like me, who doesn't even know how many players there are in a football team, still knows where the Chelsea stadium is, but couldn't figure out what "event day" meant there. My bad. I will contact the DVLA to suggest they include football questions in future versions of the driving tests.

how can a motorist be expected to read a sign with 12 lines of text without stopping?

Often more.

why can it not put a sign with something like "search Wandsworth parking restrictions event days"? Why should they? Their approach is standard.

2) how is it more reasonable to expect a driver drives back there and stops in the middle of the road to read a sign with 12 lines of text? Rather obtuse. This is the same as question 1 and the council's answer will be the same: read them as you pass instead.

3) how can you dismiss the fact that the website presents contradicting information on what the event days are, and what the restrictions are (the website says no parking for more than an hour, the sign doesn't). You didn't read the website until AFTER the event, so it is irrelevant to your case. Had you read before then, as I said, you could argue that you were misled/lack of clarity.If, however, you are saying that you are allowed to park for an hour free by virtue of the TMO, then say so and prove it. Your other arguments won't succeed IMO.

But you've submitted your challenge so just wait for their response.

While waiting, are you the RK and are you DVLA details current?