Author Topic: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit  (Read 612 times)

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Newham Council
Alleged contravention: Parked in a residents’ or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place
Location: op1p18

I obtained a contractor’s parking permit and displayed it on my dashboard (photo uploaded to Dropbox, please see link below). However, I returned to my vehicle to find a PCN. This was a new site to me and I thought I had parked in the correct place. I was driving a transit size van and there was nowhere else to park. The permit clearly states in capitals: “DO NOT TICKET THIS VEHICLE”.

The photographic evidence shows my van clearly displaying the permit so I can’t understand why I was issued with a ticket. Please note that all the photos of my van were taken by the CEO.

The PCN and photographic evidence can be found here:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/elblrr4ai8puh1ykozsci/AKB3UjqPgWuEordK51TYJpU?rlkey=ac174peh0jt1ve3eisjwa10mi&st=oc2jv3lp&dl=0

This is the Google Street View location:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/TYRZAD6EXz9PpYZA8

I've only just found your site so hope someone is available to help me before 1.11.24, the last date I can appeal before the fine increases.

Thanks in advance for your help. If you need further information, please let me know.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2024, 12:11:20 pm by enajila29 »

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Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #1 on: »
The permit you have is for a private parking company not Newham. It seems you parked in a Newham on-street bay and not private land?

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #2 on: »
(Cross-posted with Stamfordman.)

Here?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/sTC47pKbUGtLcCg3A
That appears to opposite lamp post 18.

Not sure why the CEO has goven a photo of the UKPC sign?

As Stamf says, the Permit is for the private areas of the Galleons Point Estate - presumably Fishguard Way is public and Council maintained. If the whole area is the Galleons Point Estate I can understand why the 'Permit Holders Only' sign is confusing.

Where is the UKPC sign located? Partly answeredby the plethora of signs here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RaU4VSV7YGT82Dgy6

At some point you must have passed an entering CPZ sign . . .

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #3 on: »
(Cross-posted with Stamfordman.)

Here?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/sTC47pKbUGtLcCg3A
That appears to opposite lamp post 18.

Not sure why the CEO has goven a photo of the UKPC sign?

As Stamf says, the Permit is for the private areas of the Galleons Point Estate - presumably Fishguard Way is public and Council maintained. If the whole area is the Galleons Point Estate I can understand why the 'Permit Holders Only' sign is confusing.

Where is the UKPC sign located? Partly answeredby the plethora of signs here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RaU4VSV7YGT82Dgy6

At some point you must have passed an entering CPZ sign . . .
The photo of the UKPC sign is not on the Council website so it must be the OP's own photo.
One of the CEO's photos does show a Newham "Permit Holders Only" repeater sign for Zone RDE(?) on the pavement just behind the van. The resolution is not great so I can't be sure of the Zone.

So where is the UKPC sign?

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #4 on: »
It's not a repeater sign it's a bay sign. This is a controlled parking zone where all on-street kerbsides are yellow lines or parking bays.

But the flats also have private car parks/parking areas, which is where the OP should have been.
OP - who were you working for and for what?


Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #5 on: »
Thank you all for your speedy and helpful replies! I'm working atm so will read through and reply this evening. Thanks again, much appreciated!

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #6 on: »
The permit you have is for a private parking company not Newham. It seems you parked in a Newham on-street bay and not private land?

It was my first time here and I wasn't aware there was a difference, I thought it was all part of the Galleons Point Estate. Galleons Point Management didn't mention it when I collected the permit and I thought 'permit parking only' meant the permit that I had.

Do you think I can appeal on the grounds of unclear signage?

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #7 on: »

Not sure why the CEO has goven a photo of the UKPC sign?
Where is the UKPC sign located? Partly answeredby the plethora of signs here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RaU4VSV7YGT82Dgy6

I took the photo of the UKPC sign. It was opposite the bay I was parked in.

As Stamf says, the Permit is for the private areas of the Galleons Point Estate - presumably Fishguard Way is public and Council maintained. If the whole area is the Galleons Point Estate I can understand why the 'Permit Holders Only' sign is confusing.
I didn't see any signage to make me think part of the estate is public and Council maintained. As I said in my answer to stamfordman, I thought it was all part of the Galleons Point Estate and yes, the 'permit holders only' sign is confusing.

At some point you must have passed an entering CPZ sign . . .
Unfortunately, I didn't see one. It was difficult enough trying to find the estate management office. That said, as UKPC maintain part of the area, if I had seen it, I would have thought the CPZ was referring to that.

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #8 on: »
But the flats also have private car parks/parking areas, which is where the OP should have been.
I understand that now but, unfortunately, it wasn't pointed out to me by the estate office and there was no space for me to park there anyway.

OP - who were you working for and for what?
I was working for a private resident.



Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #9 on: »
@cp8759 I'd appreciate your help on this please as I need to appeal/pay by 1 November. Many thanks!

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #10 on: »
You can try a polite ask based on working for a resident and misunderstanding the private/public parking but this is Newham and they are unlikely to cancel. In fact they would probably have towed you had it been a car.

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #11 on: »
Definitely appeal, if they'll take money out of you, then you might as well make them work for it.

I can understand that, if you'r not used to road restrictions, that situation could be confusing, as the private parking areas are all off that road, with the main road beeing the public road.

But an adjudicator won't, you are meant to know the difference, and you have a sign right behind the van and there's is no chance of getting that cancelled on that ground (If you could send the exact location, we can see where the UKPC sign is exactly compared to your van0.

I do see one possible angle here, others might confirm if that could work on your case or not, but if you get nothing else on time, use this :

I challenge this PCN on the ground of procedural impropriety :

- The allegation in the Penalty Charge Notice is the standardized and rather complex wording of a "12" allegation.

It consists of 43 words and encompasses the possibility of application to four different ways in which a contravention might occur.

The reason for this standardization relates to how the Mayor of London authorizes rates of penalty, however, this does not exempt the local authority from the legal necessity of giving to myself an adequate description of why the claim to penalty is being made.

This is to allow me to be able to make an informed decision as to whether to pay the discount rate or dispute the PCN.
The PCN did not, adequately explain the nature of the allegation, and this is a procedural impropriety.

- Further to that, as this contravention code (12) covers different types of bays, it is essential that the suffixes and the additional explanatory wording issued with the contravention codes (in this case Suffix R -Residents bay) are used as motorists are entitled to know in which type of bay they were in when the contravention occurred.

This is confirmed at paragraph 6 of the guidance issued in the FAQ on Differential Parking Penalties issued on 15 May 2007 to the various London local authorities.

No suffix can be seen on the copy Penalty Charge notice, and this is another procedural impropriety.


The council will reject this, as they always do, no matter what you write. The next step after the rejection, is to appeal to the London Tribunals, but if you loose you pay double the fine. So they gamble on the fact that you won't take the chance, and they will reject your representations either way.

In any case, again, doesn't cost nothing to appeal, and make them work for your money either way.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2024, 01:20:45 am by estevenin »

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #12 on: »
@enajila29 what is the exact nature of the work you were undertaking?

I think the traffic order is The Newham (Royal Docks East) (Parking Places) (No. 1) Order 2017 (although I have not looked for the exact entry for this particular bay), and there are various exemptions that might apply depending on what sort of work you were doing.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #13 on: »
Thanks very much for replying, I appreciate your time.

@enajila29 what is the exact nature of the work you were undertaking?

I was cleaning for one of the residents. I doubt there's an exemption for that unfortunately.

It's my nature to want to appeal but, unfortunately, given my current circumstances, I cannot take the chance that I will end up paying double the fine. For that reason it sounds as though I will have to pay it :(

Re: PCN - Newham - parked in residents' place without a valid permit
« Reply #14 on: »
Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate your time in laying this out for me.

If you could send the exact location, we can see where the UKPC sign is exactly compared to your van0.

This is the Google Street View location:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/TYRZAD6EXz9PpYZA8

Does that help?

I challenge this PCN on the ground of procedural impropriety :

The council will reject this, as they always do, no matter what you write. The next step after the rejection, is to appeal to the London Tribunals, but if you loose you pay double the fine. So they gamble on the fact that you won't take the chance, and they will reject your representations either way.

I like your thinking but as I said to someone else, unfortunately, given my current circumstances, I'm not in a position to take the chance that I will end up paying double the fine :(