3. PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
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PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
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I received a ticket for allegedly parking in a loading bay during restricted hours. At the time I believed I was parking in a pay and display bay due to the confusing road markings and distance from the loading bay sign. I also paid for a valid pay and display ticket via the parking app for the duration of my stay.

The restricted hours are between 7am and noon after which the bay becomes a pay and display bay. However, where I have parked the car, there is clearly a line separating the bay from what I assumed to be the loading bays. I have appealed the PCN on that basis but received a letter to confirm that the ticket will not be cancelled.

I have attached photos and PCN below. I'd appreciate you're valued thoughts and opinions as to whether this is worth pursuing.

Thank you

Photo: https://flic.kr/p/2pcYPaz
Photo: https://flic.kr/p/2pcYPaQ
Photo: https://flic.kr/p/2pcWUkR
Photo: https://flic.kr/p/2pcYPbb
PCN Ticket: https://flic.kr/p/2pcWUB2 PCN
NOR: https://flic.kr/p/2pcZzuH
NOR: https://flic.kr/p/2pcSHqP
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Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #1 on: »
Please post a GSV link to the location.  The divider between the two bays with different restrictions is not in accordance with guidance, or, indeed is no lawful. The divider should be a double-dashed line perpendicular to the kerb. Ideally, the two restriction signs should be on a single pole, side by side with arrows to indicate applicability at the point of division.
The incorrect divider should really win at adjudication, but you'll have to risk the full PCN penalty to find out.
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Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #2 on: »
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Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #3 on: »
Well, having now had a look at GSV, it is clear that where you parked is a single bay with a single sign as shown in your photograph, and no separate bay with a divider. If there were two bays, there would be two signs one for each bay, and a bay divider of a double-dashed white line at the division, but here there is only one sign. What you say are bay markings look like black overpainted bay markings where the bay has been resized.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/j4138bQJsze5WgJV7
The previous GSV view is April 2019 showing there was no bay at all.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/VegZqYA3oEVfQBzHA
To be honest, I don't think you have a leg to stand on regarding the contravention itself as the bay and its sign seems clear enough; sorry to have to say it.
Of course lots of other things can get a PCN cancelled, like fatal errors on the PCN,  although I can't see anything myself. The other thing is GSV latest is December 2020, so the markings may not look as pristine as they do on GSV, but I think you'll struggle to overturn this PCN.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2023, 11:43:28 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #4 on: »
Please give us the number plate, so that we can look up the council photos. The council has this information already, so there's no point in hiding it.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #5 on: »
LD68 WFG
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Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #6 on: »

OP, you parked and then what?

You say you paid. But how and how did you know you had to pay? As posted by others, there's one bay, one sign and one set of instructions.

If you went to the sign and simply misread it, this can happen. If you arrived there a tad earlier than you intended and thought b****r, paying doesn't start for another X minutes, I'll pay in advance (wing the intervening period)this also happens.

But IMO the non-dividing line is a red herring because it doesn't bear upon the events i.e. you couldn't have thought you were in a separate bay because there wasn't a sign to this effect. I don't think any adjudicator would be swayed by a 'I thought it was a different bay in which I could pay and despite there not being a sign or a location number I paid anyway'.
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Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #7 on: »
I paid for parking as there were other signs on the road with pay and display from 8am to 6.30pm.

The issue here is that the line in front of the vehicle was confusing as it appeared to indicate the end of the loading bay as well as the distance from where the sign was positioned vs where the car was parked.
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Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #8 on: »
There are the council photos:











While there is no evidence showing where the sign was in relation to your vehicle, we know as a fact that there is only one bay with no other sign. Any signs in other bays are irrelevant, so the question is then whether it was reasonable for your to believe you were not parked in the loading bay, and the standard is that of the notional diligent motorist who knows and complies with the traffic signs regulations.

None of your photos show anything resembling a bay divider line, and the Traffic Signs Manual explains at Chapter 3 that:

13.6.8.  Where two bay markings, associated with different conditions, are sited next to each other there should normally be a gap of about 100 mm between them.

Would you be able to go back and get some close-up photos of what you say looked like a bay divider? The photos you've got are all taken from too far away. I have also requested the traffic order for this bay, but it will take several weeks to get it back.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #9 on: »
I've decided to pay this penalty at the reduced amount.

I appreciate your comments and opinions but concluded that this appeal is unlikely to be overturned.

Thanks again.
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Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #10 on: »
I've got to be honest, that was probably sensible in this case.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN Newham: Parked in a loading bay, Shaftesbury Road
« Reply #11 on: »
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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