Author Topic: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth  (Read 258 times)

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PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
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I received a Moving Traffic Violation PCN for failing to give way on Salter's Hill, Lambeth.

I don't recall the incident, but looking at the video, I think this is wrong/very harsh. The oncoming car had barely made it onto the road by the time I was a few metres (5?) from the Give Way sign, and the car I don't think even had to slow down by the time I had got past the sign on the other side - it certainly didn't have to stop. There was also a car in front of me that would have partially obstructed my view from the oncoming car.

Would appreciate views and advice on dealing with this.

Google Streetview location

Details:
Contravention Code: 37 J - Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles (Camera enforcement)
Date of contravention: 11/01/2026 14:18
Location: Salter's Hill
Date of PCN: 20/01/2026

PCN Letter Pages:
One
Two
Three
Four

Images & Video from Portal:
Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4
Image 5
Video 1

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Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #1 on: »
The video won't win you this in my view - some adjudicator do rule in appellants' favour in marginal cases at this location but the oncoming car was too close to the priority area in my view.

Our member Hippo may have something on other matters.

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #2 on: »
I don't agree, sorry. The oncoming car is shown as just bumping over the speed hump when the OP's car is leaving the narrow part of the carriageway.

Here is the view as one exits the narrow section.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/82Gy6j6S147pkEEX8

The back of the priority sign is seen and also the speed hump. The hump is 17.5 metres away from the priority sign, and it's a 20 mph zone, so the video shows the OP's car was in course of exiting the priority area whilst the oncoming cars just bumping over the speed hump.

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #3 on: »
Yes looking at it again it is in the OP's favour so worth a go on the contravention alone.

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #4 on: »
Website page is still in disarray. Please screenshot the payments page as if to make a representation.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #5 on: »
Thanks for your help. Not sure if this is what you meant the payments page because its just 2 fields. (Payments page screenshot).

There's a representation button though - here's that screenshot.

Or maybe you meant the main dashboard page?

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #6 on: »
Two cases from yesterday - one allowed, one not. You decide.



Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #7 on: »
top one i say is allowed bottom one disallowed (the approaching vehicle had to stop)
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #8 on: »
Two cases from yesterday - one allowed, one not. You decide.

[img width=383.9930419921875 height=287.9976806640625]https://i.ibb.co/bjXKRfw9/7a9eaac1-3336-4697-bc81-78795f5a818a-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif[/img]
[img width=383.9930419921875 height=287.9976806640625]https://i.ibb.co/5WfhXcZ3/130c1707-2d02-46d0-90b1-99325faf363c-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif[/img]
Is one of them this case, because Mr Greenslade's logic is what we have been banging on about for years: -

Quote
The Appellant’s case is that the vehicle in the opposite direction was not yet at the priority point when they began to move forward.

Although the Appellant’s vehicle is seen to pass the sign indicating the requirement, it is by no means clear from the images that the oncoming vehicle had, at that moment, passed the equivalent point on the other side of the bridge.

The Adjudicator is only able decide an appeal by making findings of fact on the basis of the evidence produced by the parties and applying relevant law.

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #9 on: »
Hey, not sure where this leaves us/what to do now... any advice?

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #10 on: »
Thanks for your help. Not sure if this is what you meant the payments page because its just 2 fields. (Payments page screenshot).

There's a representation button though - here's that screenshot.

Or maybe you meant the main dashboard page?

The latter.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #11 on: »
Yes the bottom video was allowed by Henry Greenslade.

The top one was refused by Andrew Harman.

This shows that the lottery in a lot of cases is the adjudicator.

--------

Bottom video - 2250483268 - Greenslade

A contravention can occur is a vehicle is driven so as to fail to give way to oncoming vehicles.
There appears to be no dispute that the vehicle was in Salter's Hill, as shown in the closed circuit television (cctv) images produced by the Enforcement Authority.
The Appellant’s case is that the vehicle in the opposite direction was not yet at the priority point when they began to move forward.
Although the Appellant’s vehicle is seen to pass the sign indicating the requirement, it is by no means clear from the images that the oncoming vehicle had, at that moment, passed the equivalent point on the other side of the bridge.
The Adjudicator is only able decide an appeal by making findings of fact on the basis of the evidence produced by the parties and applying relevant law.
Considering all the evidence before me carefully I cannot find as a fact that, on this particular occasion, a contravention did occur.
Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.

--------

Top video - 2250483632 - Harman

The contravention alleged in these proceedings is that this vehicle, at Salters Hill, failed to give way to oncoming vehicles. On the appellant's case, an approaching vehicle was not close enough to require her to give way to it. The proximity of an approaching vehicle is of no relevance to liability. The test to be applied is whether that other vehicle is 'oncoming'. I am satisfied on the council's video footage of the incident that an approaching vehicle as shown on the footage was 'oncoming'. The appellant was required to wait at the restriction to give way to it. Given she did not do so this contravention has occurred. None of the appellant's submissions raise an exemption or defence to that contravention. The appeal is refused.


Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #12 on: »
what absolute bollox by Harman. he's suggesting the entire length of the road is the controlled area then eh! assuming the road was a mile long the other vehicle woukd still be "approaching"
surely this must be wrong in law.
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #13 on: »
what absolute bollox by Harman. he's suggesting the entire length of the road is the controlled area then eh! assuming the road was a mile long the other vehicle woukd still be "approaching"
surely this must be wrong in law.
I have to agree; there must be some limitation on the obligation to give-way and the signs on each end of the restricted length give that limitation.  Consider a motorist who has just turned into Salters Hill and as he completes the turn, vehicles are proceeding through the tunnel in the opposite direction. On Harman's logic, these vehicles are all in contravention, because there is an oncoming vehicle coming towards him. What tosh !!

Re: PCN - Moving Traffic Violation - Salter's Hill, Lambeth
« Reply #14 on: »
would that decision not be worthy of an appeal on the grounds of miss-applying the law? 
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man