3. PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
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volavola

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2024, 04:23:13 pm »
Hello,

Thanks all for the replies.

NTO arrived yesterday and is attached.
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volavola

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2024, 04:23:51 pm »
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volavola

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2024, 09:07:30 am »
Quote from: cp8759 on February 13, 2024, 12:05:44 am
@volavola if you let us know once you've got the NTO I will draft a formal representation for you.

@cp8759

I have drafted quickly the below, if you could let me know if I've been to nice or how to change some of the content that would be great.

- Arrived at 11:50 and parked at St John’s Green, outside St Giles Conference Centre.
- Returned to vehicle at 13:45 and moved approx. 250m to other bays, St John’s Green (central Section) as shown in the YouTube video.
- Returned to the vehicle at 15:30 to find PCN.

I do not believe this PCN should apply as the car wasn’t parked for more than 2 hours in either of these distinct bays. As set out in the TRO under Schedule No.44 (Page 205), the locations at St John’s Green are defined under different headings and are therefore separate locations; there is no zonal restriction in place.

In your previous rejection, you state that the CEO noted the tyre valve positions were the same at the first and second observation and therefore the vehicle did not move. I provide a copy of the car dashcam footage, uploaded to YouTube, which is time and date stamped to show it did.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 09:09:43 am by volavola »
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H C Andersen

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2024, 09:47:36 am »
OP, did you submit the video with your challenge?

Whether you did or did not, there is something very wrong with the authority and CEO standards here.

We have seen that the car moved. Therefore, leaving the law to one side for the moment, as a matter of fact the car moved. It is therefore impossible that a CEO acting reasonably could have observed the car in location A and issued the PCN in location B and yet claimed* in their notes that the car had not moved. B******s to valve positions, the b****y car was 250m away from where it was observed originally. Setting aside for one moment the video, the CEO is lying and/or grossly incompetent because the car was not in the same physical location. S*d zonal restrictions, the car was NOT as a matter of fact in the same place. That the OP can prove this is an important part of their evidence but the fact still remains that the CEO lied.

Cp's draft should win and the CEO will be let off the hook. Personally, I'd go for their jugular.

*- we haven't seen the notes and some blame might attach to the authority as regards their interpretation.

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volavola

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2024, 09:20:41 am »
Thanks for the reply H C.

Yes, I did submit the video with the challenge. The video was unlisted, and had 9 views at the time I sent it to them. When I received a reply from the informal appeal, it still had 9 views - so I know they didn't view the YouTube link.

I didn't want to outright accuse the CEO of lying, however I would say it's pretty unlikely that he/she initially marked the valve positions and is also unaware that the St.John's 2 hour parking bays aren't seperate; or maybe just trying it on!

If/when the PCN gets revoked, I will still send an email to the parking partnership and copy in anyone else that could flag the issue. My partner wanted to pay it due to the hassle, but for me it's more the principle given their initial response to the informal challenge - as  well as the time and money wasted on both sides!
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guest968

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2024, 03:18:41 pm »
OOI - in cases like this can the CEO be made to attend a hearing and if so do they give evidence under oath?

People might feel differently about perjury vs a falsehood on a form.
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Incandescent

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2024, 07:44:05 pm »
Quote from: Scientist and Saint on March 30, 2024, 03:18:41 pm
OOI - in cases like this can the CEO be made to attend a hearing and if so do they give evidence under oath?

People might feel differently about perjury vs a falsehood on a form.
AFAIK, you can't force the CEO to attend. This being civil law-based, the adjudicator decides on "the balance of probabilities" who is right and who is wrong. So if you take them to adjudication, it is essential you or your representative, attend the hearing. This doesn't have to be in person, as telephone adjudications are now commonplace.
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cp8759

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2024, 01:25:10 am »
@volavola your formal representation looks fine to me. The one thing I'd suggest is that you re-upload the video and send them the newly created youtube link, and don't open the link yourself and do not post it on here.

If by the time you get the notice of rejection the view count is still zero, you can then prove conclusively that they've failed to consider it.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

volavola

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2024, 11:33:36 am »
Quote from: cp8759 on April 01, 2024, 01:25:10 am
@volavola your formal representation looks fine to me. The one thing I'd suggest is that you re-upload the video and send them the newly created youtube link, and don't open the link yourself and do not post it on here.

If by the time you get the notice of rejection the view count is still zero, you can then prove conclusively that they've failed to consider it.

Thank you, I've done this so the view count is 0 and made sure not to click the link myself.

Will keep you updated when I get a response, many thanks.
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volavola

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2024, 02:32:10 pm »
Just wondering what's the average time to respond to a formal appeal or if there's a time limit at all? It's been 35 days or so at this point and the video still have zero views.

Many Thanks
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Incandescent

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2024, 02:52:09 pm »
Thereis a 56 day limit under the Traffic Management Act to respond to formal representations against a Notice to Owner. So a few days to go yet.
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volavola

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2024, 02:02:41 pm »
So finally had a reply from them. They have rejected it based on the video not having a time or date stamp, and as you can quite clearly see it does in the YouTube video, which is a direct copy of the reupload they watched.

Off to tribunal I reckon then...
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John U.K.

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2024, 02:07:12 pm »
Please to post up the NoR. I presume the reos were as per Reply#17?
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volavola

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2024, 02:24:19 pm »
NoR attached, and yes reply was at per post 17.
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volavola

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Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2024, 02:24:54 pm »
NoR Part 2
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