Author Topic: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading  (Read 110 times)

0 Members and 40 Guests are viewing this topic.

Hi

A friend from up north arrived at my house in Haringey N15 on thursday. Whilst still unloading his car which was full (took 5-10 minutes) and saying hello to me and my family etc, the traffic warden must have been hiding and issued him a ticket before we got the chance to go online and activate a permit.  We didnt see him at all whilst going in and out of the house and therefore he didn't say anything to us. 
We have records of this vehicle registratation from dozens of times in the past and also from recent tradesmen.  This is a residential street not a park by the minute machine bay as on the high street, is this how these people should be operating and how should i approach the appeal?

Thanks
Paul
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:35:55 pm by Goretechre »

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #1 on: »
Post the PCN, no redactions.

It's not your PCN so why are you challenging it?

Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #2 on: »
I’m not my friend is, but I feel bad as he got a ticket as soon as he parked up so I’m asking for advice

Google Docs · docs.google.com
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:55:51 pm by Goretechre »

Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #3 on: »
No redactions...

Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #4 on: »
None now

Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #5 on: »
There are 8 minutes observation and nothing obvious showing a load in the car. There are two people in one pic - one of your friend?

If the car was left attended for 8 mins it will be hard to claim the loading exemption unless bulky stuff was carried for some distance.

The first thing to sort was the permit.







« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:12:28 pm by stamfordman »

Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #6 on: »
He’s not took photos of us loading, there was 4 people there that were witness to the unloading.  My point being he hid and typed out a PCN rather than question us
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:50:13 pm by Goretechre »

Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #7 on: »
No, the points are:
Was the driver trying to obtain a permit at the time ofthe contravention, and/or
Were they entitled to claim an exemption by virtue of unloading?

Your thread title states '..outside my home'.
The PCN gives an observation time of 8 minutes.
The contravention time was 16.23
The permit was actually obtained at ???, pl advise.




Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #8 on: »
My wife was in an online meeting when he arrived and i was still 5-10 minutes away, no permit could be activated so he began unloading (his car was full of bags of shoeboxes that he was taking inside). As soon as i arrived i helped him with a bag and then boom there was a ticket on the window and the first time the parking attendent had been seen.  The Haringey operative was so obviously acting in an elusive manner.

Haringey Council states this i dont know if it pertains in any way?

3.6. Registered keeper’s liability
Under the Traffic Management Act 2004 the responsibility for any PCN rests with the
registered keeper of the vehicle as recorded at the Driver and Vehicle Licensing
Agency (DVLA). If the keeper was not the driver at the time of the contravention it
remains their responsibility to pay the PCN.
3.7. Loading and unloading
Vehicles will be permitted to park in contravention of waiting restrictions whilst
carrying out the legitimate activity of loading or unloading (unless specifically
prevented by legislation) provided:
1. Activity, involving the vehicle, is observed by the Civil Enforcement Officer
whilst the vehicle is parked. The observation period shall be for at least two
minutes and a PCN shall only be issued if no activity is seen during this period.
2. Generally, a maximum of 20 minutes will be allowed to enable loading /
unloading to take place.
3. Exceptions will be made when the nature of the goods being loaded/unloaded
requires more time, i.e. moving very heavy goods.
4. Due allowance will be given to allow the driver to complete the delivery
paperwork.
5. Where a PCN is issued , a challenge or representation will be considered if
supported by evidence showing loading and unloading that may have also
related to heavy goods or confirming delay by the recipient of any goods.
You cannot deliver, load or unload on zigzags (yellow or white) , at any time e.g.
pedestrian crossings and school keep clear markings , in a bus stop or bus stand,
during
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 02:49:55 pm by Goretechre »

Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #9 on: »
My wife was in an online meeting when he arrived and i was still 5-10 minutes away, no permit could be activated so he began unloading (his car was full of bags of shoeboxes that he was taking inside).

IMO, your wife being otherwise occupied is not a statutory defence, but goes to mitigation which an adjudicator cannot exercise and which IMO the council would not if you use terms such as 'The Haringey operative was so obviously acting in an elusive manner'.

Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #10 on: »
I’m simply telling you what happened.  I’m here for advice as to which way to approach this legally.  Does the paragraph I posted above not apply in anyway?  The traffic warden was guiding what other way can I dress that up, no one saw him after half a dozen trips in and out
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:31:00 pm by Goretechre »

Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #11 on: »
According to the CEO, what happened was that during an observation period of 8 minutes they did not see any evidence of unloading. Is the driver saying this was not correct?

Similarly, during that same period a permit was not held which permitted the car to park. Is the driver saying this was incorrect?

Can the driver challenge the 8-minute period, if so on what basis?

Councils are financially invested in not cancelling PCNs and adjudicators may only apply the law to the facts.

Re: PCN issued outside my house to a visitor still unloading
« Reply #12 on: »
It's worth making a first stage challenge but you've not tols enough about what took place during this observation time.

It's not a big car so unloading what exactly and by whom, how many trips to and from car.