Author Topic: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion  (Read 428 times)

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Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #15 on: »
The sign is the only thing I checked as well as seeing if there was a match on at the stadium via the website.

This doesn't make sense. You say the only thing you checked was the sign. But then you say as well as the website.

You checked the website at the roadside? And what website?

Ok so in order of actions to be perfectly clear:

1. I looked up at the sign and saw the reference to match day
2. I google searched 'next Emirates Stadium game' and saw it was in August.

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #16 on: »
Cases we have show that some adjudicators consider the word match is defective when there is no match.

I'd like to know if the OP checked for a match at the roadside as the website refers to Arsenal home matches at the start of the page.

Read this long thread.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/islington-code-11-parked-without-payment-of-the-parking-charge-highbury-station-/msg118411/#msg118411

We also have a possible case that multiple events on the CPZ sign are not authorised.

-------

The Appellant's case is that it was not a match day as no football match was going on that day at the Emirates Stadium, there was a concert instead. He cited a number of other Adjudicators decisions in support of his argument. Other Adjudicators decisions are not binding on me, they are only persuasive.

However, in this case I find that I am in agreement with all the decisions the Appellant has cited. The first case was 2250451308, the second case 2250480306, the third 2250482414, then 2250512537 and finally 2250234820.

I agree with these decisions and I adopt their reasoning and findings as if they were my own.

I would add the following, whilst the signage has Secretary of State approval, I find that the signs appear to be in disrepair and the panels zig zag, which make it more difficult to read.

And further that the lower panel should only record the date of the next event and not the date of the next event and the event following that.

The appeal is allowed
.

Yes this is a very good case which I have read. I will apply this to my challenge. As you can see, my sign did not list the event/match days which made it even more confusing.

Thanks for the info. 

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #17 on: »
I fear we're at cross purposes.

OP, there are 2 signs in this saga i.e. the one within the parking bay and the CPZ sign at the entrance to the zone.

You posted: The sign is the only thing I checked as well as seeing if there was a match on at the stadium via the website.

Whereas 'I find that the signs appear to be in disrepair and the panels zig zag, which make it more difficult to read.' I think applies to the CPZ sign which you didn't read.

Be careful when you draft your appeal and don't mix the two.

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #18 on: »
Post a draft here first and I'll tweak it.

Islington should be on a loser here. They need to change the signs from match to event but that will cost a fair bit.

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #19 on: »
Post a draft here first and I'll tweak it.

Islington should be on a loser here. They need to change the signs from match to event but that will cost a fair bit.

Ah yes I didnt see that controlled sign. I only applied/saw what was near the vehicle. I just did a Google Street View and saw that zigzag sign too. I am new to vehicle ownership in the UK, in Australia we just rely on what signs are near the vehicle, hence my confusion. But I see now that it has that extra information which would have been useful.

I am posting my challenge below, taking into account your info, being:

I had parked the vehicle and noted the attached sign near my vehicle.
The signage stated parking was allowed after 1:30pm provided it was not a match day.
I Googled Emirates Stadium matches and saw there were no matches on that day.
I received a fine and was confused until I realised that council may refer to other events such as concerts.
The CPZ signage was also in a zigzag shape and not clearly visible.
Similar cases to mine have been reviewed by an adjudicator and dismissed, the most recent being case 2250584855 seen by adjudicator Carl Teper, who allowed the appeal on the basis that there was no football match but rather a concert.
Similar cases noted by the adjudicator are 2250451308, the second case 2250480306, the third 2250482414, then 2250512537 and finally 2250234820.
I believe that by the council pursuing this case, they will only serve to waste the resources of the system, especially as the appeal is likely to be successful based on precedent.

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #20 on: »
This isn't quite right. I'll tweak it later.
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Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #21 on: »
This isn't quite right. I'll tweak it later.

Should I just edit what I have written? Do you know of any other examples I could use to help?

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #22 on: »
Sorry for delay - will tweak the challenge later today.

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #23 on: »
This is better. I wouldn't discuss the entry signs at this stage.

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I was puzzled to receive this PCN as I thought I’d checked the location was unrestricted at the time. I can only think there was a match taking place at the time that I missed, but after investigation it appears there was a pop concert that you deem to be a ‘match’ at the Emirates stadium.
 
I am challenging the PCN on the grounds that a pop concert is not a match and I did all that was reasonable at the location to check if there was a football match on at the Emirates stadium using my smartphone, and found there wasn’t.

I draw your attention to decision 2250584855 by adjudicator Carl Teper, who allowed the appeal on the same basis that there was no football match but rather a concert, noting several other such allowed cases, adopting their reasoning and findings as his own.

I trust you will accept the decisions of multiple adjudicators without troubling them further and look forward to your cancellation of the PCN.

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #24 on: »
Thank you stamfordman, thats great.

I have submitted the challenge. Hopefully council don't bother pursuing and start updating their signage.

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #25 on: »
So I received a response and they outlined the same info that was dismissed in a similar case whereby event is meant to mean concert too.

The response does not give an option to challenge/appeal in court? Does anyone know if that is done via the Islington website?


Quote
'Thank you for contacting us about the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
We have considered the challenge you submitted and have found no grounds for
cancellation of the penalty charge.
The PCN was issued as your vehicle was parked after the expiry of paid for time.

I have noted your comments regarding the match days restrictions and the recent decisions
made by the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators (ETA) in terms of the wording 'match day'.
please however see below for an extract from the Traffic Management Order (TMO) that
defines the meaning of a match day. Whilst I appreciate that it was an event and not
specifically a football match taking place, I am not satisfied that this invalidates the charge.

Match day restrictions come into force where crowd expectancy will be 10,000 people or
more. The Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ) entry point signs are updated to provide all drivers
details of the next match day dates and the road side time plates provide specific details of
the additional restrictions in place of match days at each specific location. Drivers must
ensure that they consult the CPZ entry point signs each time they enter a parking zone so
that they can familiarise themselves with the restrictions in place.
I have included photographs of the CPZ signage located on Canonbury Lane that confirms
the signage advised drivers that 06 June was a match day. I am therefore satisfied that
drivers were adequately advised it was a match day and that the road side time plate
provided clear details on the additional restrictions in place.

Having reviewed the matter I am satisfied that the contravention occurred and I am not
satisfied that there are sufficient grounds to cancel the charge.
You should now choose one of the following options:
Pay the penalty charge. We will accept the discounted amount of £55.00 in settlement of
this matter, provided it is received by 19 July 2026. After that date, the full penalty charge of
£110.00 will be payable.
Or
Wait for a Notice to Owner (NtO) to be issued to the registered keeper of the vehicle,
who is legally responsible for paying the penalty charge. Any further correspondence
received prior to the NtO being issued may not be responded to.
The NtO gives the recipient the right to make formal representations against the penalty
charge. If we reject those representations, there will be the right of appeal to the
Environment and Traffic Adjudicator.

You can make a credit or debit card payment on our automated payment line on 020 7527
8000 at any time. You can also pay online at www.islington.gov.uk. If you prefer to pay by
cheque, please make it payable to LB Islington and send it to the address at the top of this
letter. Please write the PCN number on the back of the cheque. You may also send postal
orders (quoting the PCN number).'



Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #26 on: »
Pl stop transcribing and post the actual docs, you WILL miss something as well as getting a stiff wrist. 

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #27 on: »
For Regulation 9 PCNs under the Transport Management Act, 2004 that are served to the vehicle or the driver at the roadside, there is a second stage of the process called the Notice to Owner stage.

Your reps were an informal challenge against the PCN. However, the process makes the owner, who may not be the driver, responsible for payment or appealing of a PCN, hence the service of a Notice to Owner, if payment is not received after rejection of an informal challenge. A formal representation can be submitted against an NtO by the owner, and if rejected, the owner can register an appeal at London Tribunals, (or pay the NtO, of course).

So yes, you can get to a "court" eventually, (although an adjudication is not a court, but is judicial in nature).
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Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #28 on: »
They've conceded the point about it not being a match.

I would go on with this as the adjudicated decisions have reached a critical mass.

Re: PCN - Islington parked over expiry of paid time (05) confusion
« Reply #29 on: »
Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?