3. PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
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PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
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Hi all,

I was served a PCN for parking in a residents bay, however it was incorrectly served as there were misprints on the PCN itself (information missing). I appealed, however this was rejected and they supplied the missing information via response in the letter.

Since then a notice to owner (NTO) was served, however due to life events, I was unable to respond within the 28 day period.

I will need two pieces of advice here:
1) How to proceed now that I've missed the 28 day appeal period of the NTO
2) The actual response in writing to the NTO

Documents/Timeline:
PCN served 10/07/23

Google street view link

Spoiler: Appeal (posted 21/07/23) (hover to show)

PCN appeal response (dated 03/08/23)

Notice to Owner - NTO (dated 23/08/23)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2023, 12:03:47 am by S23 »
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #1 on: »
How far out of the time window are you ?  If it were me, I'd submit reps and explain why they have been submitted late. Your "life events" would need to be fairly serious, of course.
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on September 26, 2023, 12:04:47 am
How far out of the time window are you ?  If it were me, I'd submit reps and explain why they have been submitted late. Your "life events" would need to be fairly serious, of course.

NTO is dated 23/08/23 and it is now 26/09/23. More than 28 days have passed.

I don't believe our life events are significant enough nor can I provide anything with any proof.

How should I submit reps in this case? (Ie. what should my new response be? I already stated my case in the original appeal shown in the spoiler tag)
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #3 on: »
Post is slow at the moment and no-one (except you) can say when the NtO arrived.

I would go online, ignore the fact you might be late, and challenge on the basis that the mis-printed PCN is unlwaful and no penalty is due on the back of it. Attach a copy. The council have the right to ignore late representations but they can't be sure they are late so will probably respond. Do it now.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2023, 08:57:20 am by mrmustard »
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I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: mrmustard on September 26, 2023, 08:44:22 am
Post is slow at the moment and no-one (except you) can say when the NtO arrived.

I would go online, ignore the fact you might be late, and challenge on the basis that the mis-printed PCN is unlwaful and no penalty is due on the back of it. Attach a copy. The council have the right to ignore late representations but they can't be sure they are late so will probably respond. Do it now.

Thank you - I have repeated my previous letter but with registered keeper's details. I also realised the notice to owner provided no information on how to challenge, even though the body of the notice referred to a section of text on it. Not sure if this is much, but I added a line about it in too
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: S23 on September 29, 2023, 01:40:19 am
I also realised the notice to owner provided no information on how to challenge, even though the body of the notice referred to a section of text on it. Not sure if this is much, but I added a line about it in too
Pages 3 and 4 of the notice to owner seem to cover that point?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: mrmustard on September 26, 2023, 08:44:22 am
Post is slow at the moment and no-one (except you) can say when the NtO arrived.

I would go online, ignore the fact you might be late, and challenge on the basis that the mis-printed PCN is unlwaful and no penalty is due on the back of it. Attach a copy. The council have the right to ignore late representations but they can't be sure they are late so will probably respond. Do it now.

I posted it and also emailed them explaining that I made reps. However, they responded by post and simply stated they did not receive it - see here. I sent it via 1st class postage stamp as tracking would not have helped.

What should I do now?
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #7 on: »
You have over-cropped their response and we do not know what date it was sent: please tell us.

What is the online status of the PCN?

Others will be along to tell you how to deal with the order for recovery.

Quote
I sent it via 1st class postage stamp as tracking would not have helped.

For future reference post 1st.class at post office counter and obtain proof of posting (free).

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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #8 on: »
It seems to me this is the ley sentence: -
Quote
Since then a notice to owner (NTO) was served, however due to life events, I was unable to respond within the 28 day period.
Please post your reps that you submitted, albeit late, against the Notice to Owner.

Form TE9 does not seem to cover your circumstances: -
/https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094509/TE9.pdf
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on October 19, 2023, 12:42:34 pm
You have over-cropped their response and we do not know what date it was sent: please tell us.

What is the online status of the PCN?

Others will be along to tell you how to deal with the order for recovery.

Quote
I sent it via 1st class postage stamp as tracking would not have helped.

For future reference post 1st.class at post office counter and obtain proof of posting (free).

Sorry - response was dated 02/10/23. Online status shows 'Charge certificate stage'
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on October 19, 2023, 12:51:20 pm
It seems to me this is the ley sentence: -
Quote
Since then a notice to owner (NTO) was served, however due to life events, I was unable to respond within the 28 day period.
Please post your reps that you submitted, albeit late, against the Notice to Owner.

Form TE9 does not seem to cover your circumstances: -
/https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094509/TE9.pdf

The text in the original appeal was re-sent (please see original post - spoiler tag) and dated the letter to be within the NTO period.
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #11 on: »
Council had options
They could have accepted the challenge and dealt with it
They could have rejected as late
They say it never arrived.
To me this situation is covered by the sent reps but got no reply ground on the Witness Statement.
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: DancingDad on October 19, 2023, 02:01:13 pm
Council had options
They could have accepted the challenge and dealt with it
They could have rejected as late
They say it never arrived.
To me this situation is covered by the sent reps but got no reply ground on the Witness Statement.
I don't think it does, because that ground refers to the PCN, and the OP sent reps against that and received a rejection, but not the NtO.
Quote
I was served a PCN for parking in a residents bay, however it was incorrectly served as there were misprints on the PCN itself (information missing). I appealed, however this was rejected and they supplied the missing information via response in the letter.
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on October 19, 2023, 02:50:34 pm
Quote from: DancingDad on October 19, 2023, 02:01:13 pm
Council had options
They could have accepted the challenge and dealt with it
They could have rejected as late
They say it never arrived.
To me this situation is covered by the sent reps but got no reply ground on the Witness Statement.
I don't think it does, because that ground refers to the PCN, and the OP sent reps against that and received a rejection, but not the NtO.....
Post 4 suggested that OP sent same reps in reply to the NTO...late but sent?
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Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
« Reply #14 on: »
When did you actually receive the notice to owner?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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