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Dear all,

Writing to you in regards my situation in hope I might get some useful advice. I have previously used some knowledge I have found useful here to make an appeal unfortunately it seems they have declined it and I'm not sure why. I am now considering appealing this on London Tribunals as don't have the money to pay them.

On the date of 29/04/2025 early in the morning (around 8AM) we were delivering some parcels for Amazon Flex (I was with my partner helping me with the deliveries) and I received 2 contraventions for allegedly violating the their clean air policy. I was following 2 GPS tracking phones, one with Amazon maps and another with Google Maps(I do understand signs on the road supersedes any GPS)  however none of them has flagged these roads as being shut to non-residents, being a bit of a rush hour (kids going to school) and under pressure to deliver on time, I missed these signs as being on these streets for the very first time never having ever heard of LTZ (clean air zones) or whatever they may call them, as poorly advertised anywhere to be honest.

For this for mentioned PCN in the title, I had actually reviewed the video and coming from a side parking on the right side the sign is extremely high and easily missed, also never expected as for the rules of the road change all of the sudden.

I mean, if a lane on the motorway is being shut, they sign it beforehand maybe even 1 mile in advance with a big red X multiple times. If a road is closed there barriers or signs with "ROAD CLOSED" or something that clearly captures your attention. Their signs are smaller then the height restriction and very high on the street pole in this situation.

To make things worse I got issued with 2 of these penalties in the same day, as had a delivery on another of these closed off streets.

At this time I am in a very difficult financial situation and was thinking even if I appeal this and lose at least I get more time to pay, however that it's going to be double, instead of £80 I will be required to paying £160 and there are two of them, so £320 but it given me around 2 months to possibly maybe get the money ...

I will open another topic for the second one of these forums explaining the second one as well.

Please see attached my appeal to them and please see attached their response as well. Please note as evidence I had was the time block and insurance payment receipt (pay as you kind of thing) however the block time shows as starts at 9, now I checked app again as shows correctly starting at 7AM.

Do I have any chance of winning this ? I read that some first offenders have managed to get their PCN cancelled. Are they required to take account on previous precedents ? departing from it wouldn't it be discriminatory ? Or is this on a case by case without any regards to previous cases ?

Apologies if this not so clear or if I lack clarity in expiration as this is my first time posting here.

Any advice from anyone who has made an appeal on London Tribunals, or any other type would be greatly appreciated.

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Dear Sir,

Thanks for your input. The PCN number is in the Rejection Appeal Notice that has been attached to my initial thread.

However for your convivence please see it here below as well as the vehicle registration number.

PCN: HZ91718699
Reg: YC09OWH

I understand signage is rather hard to contest, however, I would have added this on top of main defense and as of such that they have departed from the statutory precedent where they have cancelled lots of other PCN to first time offenders.

I feel I am being discriminated against, as I am a first time offender and in other previous cases they have shown mercy an cancelled them. Given my circumstances I don't understand why am I being treated diiferent.

As an example I have used the below:

Rinat Bikatov v London Borough of
Waltham Forest Case no. 2120030405

All this information can be found in Notice of Rejection attached to my main post.

Also, appeal was made when the reduced period was still applicable and by law (as far as could find online) also other PCN I have contested they obligated to still offer the reduced rate, they would have not offered if appeal was made before the reduced period would have ended, this is not a courtesy it's just a their disguise to make me pay. This is just a scare tactic and if you read their letter (that I find highly offensive) you will see it's written in a threating tone without any justification for rejection. They are actually using CAPS to get it all in capital, as one were to be SHOUTING !!!

Very unprofessional on their behalf.

If I would have had the money I would have paid it and get it done with, as much as I enjoy this(sarcasm), I have other pressing matters that need payment, as rent, council tax, other bills.

So my main focus is keeping the rent and light on, not paying something that is clearly met to entrap drivers. They have racked over £8.000.000 with just 5 cameras in 1 year.

I just need a bit on insight as to how much effort I should put into this so I know if I have a chance of winning or will it just be buying myself some time and paying at a double rate.

Please have a look at below graph:

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Try as I might, I cannot see in any of your posts
all sides of the PCN (with only yr name & address redacted),
a copy of what you wrote to the council,
nor
a copy of their Notice of Rejection?

You may want to edit yr second image in yr opening post to redact yr name & address.

+1

This is the basis of your problem; using satnav without paying attention to roadsigns.

I was following 2 GPS tracking phones, one with Amazon maps and another with Google Maps

Please also give us some real information to go on, rather then telling us all about other cases and information of no value to you or us.
.
- PCN all sides with only name and address redacted
- Description of journey that gave rise to the PCN

Here are some GSV extracts. The southbound approach is only up to 2022 so may not be up-to-date, so not posted

North-bound along Peterborough Road
Advance warning sign: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MAA3bZ54g4MVryha8
Restriction signs
https://maps.app.goo.gl/d531jbGfu9sHq5X36
These are absurdly high up. So high, in fact, in my opinion, as to not meet the test of 'adequacy' in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 (LATOR)

Approaching Peterborough Road on Clancarty Road
Advance warning sign
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UXN6tAibRQ9KBzjHA

Having now looked at GSV, and assuming you came down Clancarty Road and turned right, the restriction signs are absurdly high and likely to be missed. That may be the best avenue for an appeal at London Tribunals.

There may be a "technical" appeal based on H & F mismanagement of the enforcement process,  but I'll leave that to others more knowledgeable than myself.

Quote from: John U.K. on July 11, 2025, 04:17:37 pm

Try as I might, I cannot see in any of your posts
all sides of the PCN (with only yr name & address redacted),
a copy of what you wrote to the council,
nor
a copy of their Notice of Rejection?

You may want to edit yr second image in yr opening post to redact yr name & address.

+1

This is the basis of your problem; using satnav without paying attention to roadsigns.

Quote

I was following 2 GPS tracking phones, one with Amazon maps and another with Google Maps

Please also give us some real information to go on, rather then telling us all about other cases and information of no value to you or us.
.
- PCN all sides with only name and address redacted
- Description of journey that gave rise to the PCN

Here are some GSV extracts. The southbound approach is only up to 2022 so may not be up-to-date, so not posted

North-bound along Peterborough Road
Advance warning sign: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MAA3bZ54g4MVryha8
Restriction signs
https://maps.app.goo.gl/d531jbGfu9sHq5X36
These are absurdly high up. So high, in fact, in my opinion, as to not meet the test of 'adequacy' in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 (LATOR)

Approaching Peterborough Road on Clancarty Road
Advance warning sign
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UXN6tAibRQ9KBzjHA

Having now looked at GSV, and assuming you came down Clancarty Road and turned right, the restriction signs are absurdly high and likely to be missed. That may be the best avenue for an appeal at London Tribunals.

There may be a "technical" appeal based on H & F mismanagement of the enforcement process,  but I'll leave that to others more knowledgeable than myself.

Dear Sir,

Thanks for your response.

This is the basis of your problem; using satnav without paying attention to roadsigns.

You need to understand I need to keep a constant eye as deliveries were very close to each other, this operation is timed, I have a limited time to deliver every parcel read lines and lines of instructions as per every customer, this particular morning was extremely busy as children were going to school, creating havoc, this was just literally 50 meters down this road prior to me entering this parking lot and exiting back on this road passing the "point of no return" where all the air was cleaner. 

I have never seen that sign and was unaware of council trap in this area. They should be better advertised, I don't think I have seen 1 single sign about London Traffic Neighborhood, Clean air initiative. They just pop on the road. Since these major restrictions and high PCN they should be accessible via barrier or some other sort of means here, these are just traps set up by the labour run council.       


My journey, as per that morning, from what I can remember, I was coming from the right hand side parking before this restriction (you can clearly observe this from the video). The sign is extremely high here and has been missed, I was focusing on the traffic in the parking lot (big truck going out the other side).

Also please note that the document of the notice of rejection is containing all the information of the PCN and more, including my Representation (appeal) and their response. PCN number, vehicle reg and other important bits (it's 6 pages long) containing everything was attached since my very first post.

It's a PDF that has been attached since my initial post, the name of the file is P0010700724 and can found at the very top of this topic in the attachment section. This is the same as the one they have sent to my email as a response.

For your convivence please please see PCN attached here as well.

Please let me know if you have any ideas of how I might get around them and win this ? as I am considering taking another hit and just paying them thieves (Friday I think it's last day I can pay it reduced, but will probably do it on Thursday just to be sure) as this is driving me and my partner's blood pressure through the roof.

Thanks in advance for your reply.






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Hi mate,

Problem is, I have 2 of these, and on the other one the signage is not too high.

Winning one an losing another ends up costing the same.

I could just appeal this one and pay the other .... as a best case scenario, reduce my costs in half if I win one.

Do you know how long these things take ? Where are they being judged ? I live in West London, I found some tribunals are rather far.

Do you know if you need to be there in person for any hearing to state the facts ? Any sort of lawyer or judge to question you ? As I am rather an introvert. My partner would be more suitable for this type of stuff however it's my name on the PCN.

Can you give us a little more insight on the process ? If you happen to be aware of it of course.

Thanks again for taking your time and replying.