Author Topic: PCN, Haringey, Code 16, Parked in permit zone without permit, Wargrave Ave N15 6UB  (Read 262 times)

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Hippocrates

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@Hippocrates just make up a bogus address, as long as you don't hit the "submit" button you can go through all the screens.

Haringey doesn't actually give you any grounds at all.
That's what I thought. Thanks.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2024, 07:30:55 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

yankyg

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@Hippocrates just make up a bogus address, as long as you don't hit the "submit" button you can go through all the screens.

Haringey doesn't actually give you any grounds at all.
That's what I thought. Thanks.
Will be reading this all very carefully and updating you. Thanks so much.

I have posted the screenshots from the website. I hope they are what you have asked for.

I have noticed the PCN says that the car was observed from 11:20 to 11:26, but the first of the 18 attached photos is timed at 11:25am.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2024, 10:54:30 pm by yankyg »

Hippocrates

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@Hippocrates just make up a bogus address, as long as you don't hit the "submit" button you can go through all the screens.

Haringey doesn't actually give you any grounds at all.
That's what I thought. Thanks.
Will be reading this all very carefully and updating you. Thanks so much.

I have posted the screenshots from the website. I hope they are what you have asked for.


Where are they please?
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

yankyg

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cp8759

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As I said above, I'd suggest you draft a representation based on the signage and keep the website argument in reserve for the tribunal.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

yankyg

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Dear Sir/Madam
Re: PCN ZN13555185
I have received a PCN for parking in a residents permit bay without a valid permit. I would like to make a representation challenging the PCN on the grounds that the signage was obscured from view due to the council not placing correct signage and ensuring they are visible to drivers parking. This includes a post with no signage, an exceptionally overgrown tree that blocked the view of one sign, and a considerable distance - out of line of view - to the only other sign on the bay.
Please see the attached photo evidence in which it can be seen that in both directions of the parked car, there is no visible signage.
As it was impossible to see the signage due to lack of upkeep by the council, it is my opinion that the PCN was unfairly applied, and should be cancelled. I do not live in London, and therefore cannot be reasonably expected to infer parking restrictions from other areas in the borough.
Kind regards

Hippocrates

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Dear Sir/Madam

Re: PCN ZN13555185 VRM MC51OFZ

I challenge the PCN on the ground that the signage is not fit for purpose. 

Your photo evidence does not show my car parked near any sign.

Please cancel the PCN

Yours faithfully


*****************

Don't cite this; but a similar issue:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OPAoSU2TYodCZsIX8zDgQrxvkrqXkBBD

*****

My amended draft has probably not been seen?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2024, 02:36:24 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

yankyg

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Submission Successful. Thank you!

Hippocrates

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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

yankyg

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Good evening,
I have received the below response from Haringey council. Sorry I couldn't find how to upload a pdf, and will try again if you require. They included a couple of photos that we have already seen. Please advise how I should proceed. Thank you very much for your help.


Dear *****

Penalty Charge Notice (parking ticket) number:ZN13555185
 Date of contravention: 29 August 2024
 Location: Wargrave Avenue, STH TOT (ST) CPZ
 Vehicle registration: MC51OFZ
 Thank you for writing to us.
 We have carefully considered what you say but we have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
 There is a sign where you parked that explains that the bay you parked in is for people with a resident's permit.
 You were issued a PCN for parking without a valid resident's permit. The Civil Enforcement Officer
 (CEO) checked their handheld computer which showed no valid permit for your vehicle.
 I have noted your comments. While I appreciate your concerns, it is important to note that the presence of clear and visible signage in the area is required by law, but the photographs taken by the CEO are not required to include the vehicle and the sign at the same time. The purpose of the photographs is to document the vehicle's position and any relevant aspects of the contravention. Both CEO notes and photos indicate where the vehicle was parked. Having reviewed CEO photos of the sign it appears the sign was visible and not obstructed.
 Please be advised that it is the driver's responsibility to ensure that they read all signage and observe all road markings before parking to ensure they are in the intended location and that they adhere to the restrictions.
You can view photographic evidence of your case by using the Council’s Parking Ticket viewer
 which you will find online at https://www.haringey.gov.uk/parking
 You have these choices:
 • You can pay the discount charge of £65.00 if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of service of this letter.
 • You can pay £130.00 within 28 days of the date your PCN was issued.
 • You can formally challenge your PCN by using a Notice to Owner form. The vehicle's owner
 will automatically receive the form if the PCN has not been paid within 28 days of being issued.
 The form offers you the chance to formally challenge your PCN or pay the full £130.00. If you decide to formally challenge your PCN, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner form arrives.
 How to pay:
 • By internet: Go to http://www.haringey.gov.uk/payments and follow the online instructions.
 • By telephone: At any time (Credit/Debit Cards only) on 0300 456 0520- Please have your
 credit/debit card and Penalty Charge Number to hand when you make the call.
 • In person: Take your PCN and payment to Haringey Vehicle Pound, Unit 1, 1 Waltham Park
 Way, London, E17 5DU between Monday to Saturday 7am to 10pm and Sunday 8am to 8pm.
 Please ensure you obtain a receipt.
 Yours sincerely
 Ms I Sosiuk
 Parking Process Case Office

H C Andersen

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IMO, a prospective PI as regards a prospective NTO is not grounds at this stage however one might try and shoe-horn this in.

IMO, if a NTO is received then this would be the time to raise the issue if it is apparent in the NTO and/or online.
 

yankyg

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Thank you everyone for all your help. All closed and paid now.