3. PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
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Author Topic: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.  (Read 392 times)

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scarter1

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PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« on: July 10, 2024, 07:29:08 pm »
I'll attach the PCN. The location/direction is exactly the same as in this post..

I still have 3 days to pay. I've not made any representations yet.

Only thing I have in my defence (if any) is I realised I had entered the LTN just after passing the planters. So I immediately pulled up, did a u-turn, and exited where I came from.

The video evidence supplied shows me immediately pulling up, but not u-turning, cutting off before that.

I'm not sure if this can help in any way. Do I have any approach? 

  • PCN Nummber: ZN1293681A

  • Car reg: GD15WKY

  • Evidence site with video: link


Apologies for the late message, and poor formatting of this message. Came back to this from hols, then spent time on the FB group, before finally getting the email verification email for this site just now.

Any help appreciated.
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scarter1

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2024, 07:35:13 pm »
Unable to attach screenshot of the PCN to this message. I keep getting a "The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator."
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cp8759

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2024, 07:46:38 pm »
Quote from: scarter1 on July 10, 2024, 07:35:13 pm
Unable to attach screenshot of the PCN to this message. I keep getting a "The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator."
That's because you need to read the guidance here, which tells you how to upload images correctly.

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A40XYPcJUR8

It looks like you pulled over on the pedestrian zig-zags for some reason?

Please upload the PCN, also do you have any mitigation unconnected to the contravention itself?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

scarter1

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2024, 08:32:40 pm »
I'll upload after the match or tomorrow. To answer your question I turned around immediately after the bollards and exited.

I made a mistake, knew immediately, and tried to rectify it.
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scarter1

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2024, 10:47:29 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 10, 2024, 07:46:38 pm
Quote from: scarter1 on July 10, 2024, 07:35:13 pm
Please upload the PCN, also do you have any mitigation unconnected to the contravention itself?

No mitigation, at least none of those on the presentations list on the back of the PCN.


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cp8759

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2024, 12:48:38 am »
Quote from: scarter1 on July 10, 2024, 10:47:29 pm
No mitigation, at least none of those on the presentations list on the back of the PCN.
Forget about what's on the back of the PCN, do you have anything else?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

scarter1

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2024, 12:56:28 pm »
What counts as a mitigation?
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scarter1

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2024, 07:56:30 am »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 11, 2024, 12:48:38 am
Quote from: scarter1 on July 10, 2024, 10:47:29 pm
No mitigation, at least none of those on the presentations list on the back of the PCN.
Forget about what's on the back of the PCN, do you have anything else?

Saying again in case you need the quote to see my response.

What counts as a mitigation?

AFAIK there's nothing else, apart from the fact I realised my mistake immediately and turned around immediately to exit.
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cp8759

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2024, 09:29:14 pm »
Quote from: scarter1 on July 11, 2024, 12:56:28 pm
What counts as a mitigation?
Recent bereavements, health issues, family issues, financial difficulties, anything like that.

You don't need to pay at this stage, even if you just put in a representation saying "the contravention did not occur" that will get the discount extended, but we can probably come up with something better than that.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

scarter1

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2024, 10:05:47 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 12, 2024, 09:29:14 pm
Quote from: scarter1 on July 11, 2024, 12:56:28 pm
What counts as a mitigation?
Recent bereavements, health issues, family issues, financial difficulties, anything like that.

You don't need to pay at this stage, even if you just put in a representation saying "the contravention did not occur" that will get the discount extended, but we can probably come up with something better than that.

Unfortunately not. Nothing of the kind.

I realise this probably has a slim to nill chance of me fighting/winning. It's a money maker for them, so the fact I realised my mistake and tried to undo it won't count for anything.

But I would welcome any advice or representations.

"Date of this Notice" is listed as 01/07/2024, so I'm not sure if the cut off for the extension/repesentations includes this Sunday or not.
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scarter1

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2024, 10:19:39 pm »
BTW If you think this has no chance in wherever in being successfully disputed, I don't need need to waste your time. Just let me know and I can pay it.
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cp8759

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2024, 12:46:58 am »
Make a representation today explaining what you've explained to us, i.e. you realised your mistake and turned around. They will likely reject but the discount will be extended and this will buy us several weeks to find better arguments.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

scarter1

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2024, 03:50:19 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 13, 2024, 12:46:58 am
Make a representation today explaining what you've explained to us, i.e. you realised your mistake and turned around. They will likely reject but the discount will be extended and this will buy us several weeks to find better arguments.

Done. TY.
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scarter1

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2024, 10:34:35 am »
My representation was considered and rejected. I'm attaching images of the letter I received back.


« Last Edit: August 23, 2024, 10:46:59 am by scarter1 »
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Hippocrates

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Re: PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2024, 11:42:20 am »
I have been unable to recommend cancellation.  Que?

Please: your formal reps.

NOR fails to include power of adjudicator to extend time.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2024, 01:05:54 pm by Hippocrates »
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε
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  3. PCN for Downhills Park Road N17 (Walpole Road Eastbound)(X3A) - realised mistake so uturned out.