3. PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
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Author Topic: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon  (Read 2693 times)

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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #15 on: »
So anyway - I've now got until 15th December to pay the discounted £55 vs the full £110.
 
I guess it's a question of odds.  If the consensus is that I've got a greater than 50% chance of prevailing at a tribunal (assuming there are grounds for going to one) then the maths says take the gamble.

If the consensus is that I'm more likely to lose I should cut my losses and pay the £55.
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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #16 on: »
NTO has arrived











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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #17 on: »
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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #18 on: »
I'm not sure how good Hillingdon's CPZ evidence packs are, but if you want to take a belt and braces approach see the tactic of last resort described here.

Have a read and if you want to use that, we can discuss setting up the links etc and also what they should point at. If the CPZ entry signs are currently in any way obscured, some photos of that would be ideal.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #19 on: »
@cp8759

Re the CPZ entry signs, I've not taken photos of them.  I could, tomorrow, but I don't believe that any case for them being obscured could be made.  The ones on GSV show them as they are, pretty much.



Subject to seasonal variations in leaf cover obscuring the one on the RHS of the road in the top photo (if you zoom in on that one you can just about make out where it is).

I don't know to what extent that one would have been covered in October when the contravention occurred, but the one on the driver's side of the road is never obscured, and as I have lived in the CPZ since before it was created I would have driven past that sign thousands of times.    What I'm trying to say is that I can't envisage any credible case for claiming that I couldn't have known about the CPZ because of signage issues.

As I said earlier, there are only two entrances to the CPZ, at points marked A & B on this map:



In the photo, A is the top one, B the bottom.  At location B there is still only the one sign on the LHS of what is a single track road.


I've got 28 days from when the NTO was served to make representations.  They don't say when they regard it as having been served, but if we assume that they use the same system of second working day after the date of posting which they did for the rejection of my initial appeal, then with an NTO date of 04/01 that takes me to 05/02/24.

All I can think to do is to ask them to use their discretion to cancel the charge, because of the following:

1) There are signs on lamp posts along the road in question which could be taken to mean that the SYL has different restrictions to the CPZ, and to add weight to that

a) the fact that within the CPZ there is at least one SYL with a sign which does carry different hours to the CPZ times

https://maps.app.goo.gl/X7tHWgtc4Tq2NmJh6

close-up: https://maps.app.goo.gl/G2nev91bEukgH6xAA

I'll take a photo of that tomorrow - seems like a good candidate to upload and set up a view counter?

b) referencing documents from several other London councils which establish the principle that there can be SYLs within CPZs which define different restrictions to the CPZ.

2) In mitigation that I was parked across the driveway of my own house because I had a skip there which prevented me from parking on it, so I was not causing any obstruction or inconvenience to others.

I know it's all a bit straw-clutchy, but it's all I've got...

And apologies for not getting back with this sooner - been meaning to do it for days, but have been swamped with getting stuff back into the house from storage now that the builders have finally gone...

If it's too late for you to help I'll quite understand, but if I could at least beg the details of how to set up a click counter (or is it Linkly?)
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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #20 on: »
As the NTO was issued on 4 January you have until midnight on Sunday to make representations. If you can get a relevant photo over to me tomorrow I'm happy to set up a link with a click counter, it only takes 2 minutes.

At this point the discount is not in play so you might as well throw everything at it.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #21 on: »
@cp8759

Thanks for that offer - if you no longer have time because this was late please let me know & I'll sort something.
 
One photo - PNG is better, but have also included a JPG in case the PNG is too large.

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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #22 on: »
I have PM'ed you.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #23 on: »
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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #24 on: »
Rest of the attachments

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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #25 on: »
The PCN states that your car was parked 'o/s 17[Clovelly Close]'

You're bombarding us with signs from other locations, including in Clovelly, but these aren't relevant.

According to GSV, o/s 17 is a single yellow line between 2 parking places.
The line is terminated at these bays.
There isn't a waiting restriction sign on this length and therefore the applicable restricted hours are those indicated on the CPZ entrance signs, in this case Mon-Fri 9am-5pm.
Further along on your side and opposite are additional restrictions which apply to buses and lorries. They aren't on your stretch of SYL anyway and in any case they're additional restrictions, not alternative. (this is the 'There are signs on lamp posts along the road in question which could be taken to mean that the SYL has different restrictions to the CPZ,' to which you referred)

I don't think we've seen the photos of your car in situ.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2024, 10:35:16 am by H C Andersen »
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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #26 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on February 03, 2024, 10:29:44 am
I don't think we've seen the photos of your car in situ.
They're on the council website:







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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #27 on: »
@cp8759

Well - they rejected my appeal.

I'll scan and upload their letter, but in the meantime here is what I sent them as representations. 
I've ringed the only link which I created which got any clicks (1).

Obviously I don't know abut the arp4 links you created.

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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #28 on: »

Well - they rejected my appeal.

We need to see this pl.

Reviewing GSV again, there's a remarkable similarity between the car in the photos and the one parked on the drive of no. 17 5 years ago, even to the same sticker on the windscreen. One could think that the driver knows the area intimately and that there's no confusion over the meaning of signs and restrictions.


Anyway, the NOR pl.
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Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
« Reply #29 on: »
@Scientist and Saint well they've opened one of the links, but not the other three. As HCA says, please post up all pages of the notice of rejection.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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