Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi all

Zipcar sent me an email stating "Heads up, you’ve received a moving violation." After slowly figuring out what happened, it's relating to stopping on a red route. If I could kindly get some advice before I proceed.

A little background - basically as per the email with a link to their policy, which states (link below) "If we can, we will redirect the violation to you.", but this has not happened. In fact, they've instantly paid for it on the 10th as per the PCN challenge web page and the email came on the 13th, so I assume there's not much I can do now in terms of challenging the PCN? That's done, right?

My second question is, can I get some information and understanding of this. As I am aware that I stopped during the loading times due to our son was nonstop crying and not feeling well. Not being familiar with the area and him feeling unwell, possibly going to vomit and saying he needs to go to the toilet I thought maybe there's no chance to find another place or distance with the toddler would be very far, we looked for boots, to buy Calpol and water for him as we planned to drive far. I saw the McDonnals, so I thought they could go toilet there also, but they never went there, they went ahead. Yes I know this isn't technically loading, but having a child, nonstop crying in my ear, my thought process couldn't function right and thought it's best to stop.

Having a look at the map, there's a left turn ahead, closer to the boots and a petrol station, but in that state, was not thinking clearly, but my point is there were no intentions to misuse the loading stop. I in fact saw the van behind me take out a small box, hardly bulky item to I guess deliver and drive off so seems kind of unfair. It was also a very long amount of space so they could have at least added 1-2 spots for normal parking.

I think there's been an error on Zipcar's side, I assume I had at least a chance to challenge in consideration of the circumstances. I'll send a message to them, but wanted some advice and feedback here. I never knew the red route is so strict as I stopped maybe once in my life on it.


Relevant links:

Zipcar linked policy in the email: https://support.zipcar.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/115008239608-Traffic-Violations

Google Map of the location:

Hi cp8759, thank you for getting back to me.

Here's the email if it helps, it pretty much links to the page I provided on my first post:



Apologies for not waiting longer, I thought nobody would be interested as it's been paid and I would just get information so I opened a ticket to Zipcar stating almost the same, but your one is indeed more to the point and better. I could respond further if they do not do anything about it, but this is what I said:

Hello

On the 31/05/24 I rented one of your vehicles, however unfortunately on the 13/06/24 I received an email stating "Heads up, you’ve received a moving violation." with an attachment with a PCN. I have also been charged £95 by Zipcar.

As per the PCN letter and TFL online web page, I had the ability and right to challenge the PCN, however Zipcar has paid the PCN on the 10th and informed me on the 13th, removing the ability to appeal/challenge.

As per Zipcar's linked "violations policy" page:

https://support.zipcar.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/115008239608-Traffic-Violations

Which states "If we can, we will redirect the violation to you. If we can't redirect it, we will pay the fine, along with any late fees and bill the total to your account, provided that there are no grounds to appeal."

As per my attachment screenshot, the TFL website clearly allowed me to challenge the PCN and I believe I had grounds for appeal. Zipcar could have redirected it to me. The TFL link to challenge now gives an error and no longer works because the charge was paid. Paying is seen as admitting the ticket was right.

I can understand that your fee of £15 is clear regarding forwarding me the penalty charge, however paying the charge before allowing me to see or challenge does not correspond with the policy stated up and is unfair.

We had a none stop crying toddler and an emergency to stop was needed. Being unfamiliar with the area, and no pay and displays visible, I could not use my phone and felt it was the best place to stop. There was the ability to stop for a maximum of 20 minutes for loading and unloading. TFL also allows for challenging PCN's on mitigating circumstances and can make discretion, however this was not done.

I feel this is not fair how Zipcar have handled this.

Attached:
screenshot of their policy on their page zoomed in sections "Can I dispute it?" and "What happens if I receive a ticket after my reservation has ended?"
screenshot of TLF page showing payment done and "challenge" button.

Hi @cp8759, ZipCar finally responded today, but not what I was hoping for.

If you could kindly draft a more legalistic response as you mentioned. Or what do you suggest?

Dear Savas,
 
Thank you for your email.
 
Allow me to clarify that as per the member contract that you agreed to via using our service this states - 11.1 You are responsible for any traffic violations incurred during your reservation or as a result of your use of a Zipcar vehicle. & 11.4 Where a violation, incurred during the Member's reservation period or after it as a result of failure to adhere to parking regulations, is sent directly to Zipcar, Zipcar will either pay the penalty/fee on behalf of the Member and then add the penalty/fee to the Member's account  - The right to appeal, or transfer liability, on any traffic or parking charge issued by any authority or body belongs to Zipcar and will be at Zipcar's absolute discretion.
 
This charge has been issued correctly, thus we are unable to refund it.
 
We have reviewed the PCN and are satisfied that this fine is valid and have been issued correctly. At this stage, there's no further actions we take regarding this matter. As the fine have been settled with the issuing authorities and the costs applied to your account, both the issuing authorities and we at Zipcar consider this matter resolved.
 
Kind regards,

The Zipcar Team

Oh by the way, I saw this thread, Not sure what happened with this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230702175721/http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=130500&pid=1518544&mode=threaded&start=#entry1518544

Their supposed T&C they are quoting.

Zipcar Membership Contract | Zipcar


Rules of Vehicle Use | Zipcar

Here's my suggested response:

What's your standing as a customer e.g. regular, first time?

I would not quite say a regular, maybe now and again. If they decide to terminate my account I wouldn't miss them to be honest, I would say their loss.

@Savas as far as the zipcar case on pepipoo goes, we never heard back from the OP. We've actually never found anyone who could be bothered to sue the hire company, which is mostly why they get away with this nonsense.

Thank you kindly for the draft, I've changed some parts as I feel their support team do seem to be alright normally so hoping for a easier outcome. I don't know a thing about sueing or proceeding with court proceedings so if you're willing to guide me or providing assistance, I could give it a go, if you believe I have a case.

P.S. The notification email keeps going in my junk so I can't see posts till I check from time to time.

Is this edit OK?

Dear Zipcar,

Letter before action

I note you state that:

"The right to appeal, or transfer liability, on any traffic or parking charge issued by any authority or body belongs to Zipcar and will be at Zipcar's absolute discretion"

With respect, this is not the case and any terms and conditions which purport to give Zipcar such absolute rights are unfair and invalid. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides a list of unfair terms in Part 2 of Schedule 1, and paragraph 20 of that schedule at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/schedule/2/paragraph/20 provides as follows:


A term which has the object or effect of excluding or hindering the consumer's right to take legal action or exercise any other legal remedy, in particular by—

(a) requiring the consumer to take disputes exclusively to arbitration not covered by legal provisions,
(b) unduly restricting the evidence available to the consumer, or
(c) imposing on the consumer a burden of proof which, according to the applicable law, should lie with another party to the contract.

Section 62(1) of the Act provides that "An unfair term of a consumer contract is not binding on the consumer", therefore as your purported term has the effect of excluding my right to appeal the penalty charge to the independent tribunal, the term is unfair and invalid under the Act. An Act of Parliament takes precedence over your terms and conditions.

You also say that "This charge has been issued correctly, thus we are unable to refund it", but again with respect this is not your decision to make, nor is it a decision for the issuing authority. Only London Tribunals has the authority to decide whether a penalty charge notice is issued correctly, you are not the tribunal and you are simply not qualified to decide whether the charge was correctly issued or not.

You were not required or under any legal obligation to pay anything as you could have made representations to the issuing authority, if you decided this was more hassle than it was worth that was your commercial decision but that has nothing to do with me and I should not have been charged for this decision.

If you had made representations to the enforcement authority requesting a transfer of liability then a new penalty charge notice would have been issued to me and that would have been the end of your involvement. As you have deprived me of any avenue of appeal to the tribunal, I'm afraid that was ZipCar's decision to do so, not mine.

In consideration of the circumstances, I would have hoped ZipCar would be understanding of the situation and at least have redirected the PCN to me after giving me a chance to explain, as per your website information (https://support.zipcar.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/115008239608-Traffic-Violations) which mentions "If we can, we will redirect the violation to you", as it is clearly the case regarding this PCN could have been redirected, which would have allowed me to appropriately challenge, removing any involvement of ZipCar and with all due respect, 'If we can..' is not similar to 'in our absolute discretion'. Being a customer who has rented your vehicles quite a few times and loyal customer, I believe I should have been given the courtesy to appeal this PCN.

If you do not issue a full refund within 14 days, I will issue county court proceedings against you.

Yours faithfully,

Savas

@cp8759

Got a response..

Hi Savas,
 
Thanks for your response. We apologise for the delay in getting back to you.
 
We take your comments into consideration and appreciate it is never a pleasant experience in receiving a PCN.
 
Please find attached an authorisation letter for you to discuss your case/dispute directly with TFL. Even though the PCN has been paid, they can still revoke it if they believe it has been issued to you incorrectly/unfairly. This is when we will be able to issue you a full refund. However, if they consider the PCN to have been issued to you correctly, no further action will be taken and the PCN will remain valid.
 
Kindly let us know the outcome once you have provided TFL with the attached letter, so we can then proceed accordingly.
 
Kind Regards,
Zipcar

The attached document is:



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Can I even challenge the TFL PCN after they have paid? I am guessing even if I did, they would reject the informal appeal so my next question would be can I go to the Tribunals in this case? If not then I'd have to go back to Zipcar to tell them once again to issue me my refund?

+1.

Your initial objective was to be able to submit reps. All that's changed is that the penalty's already been paid and that you are representing Zip, not yourself.

TfL will either consider these reps or not.

1. They consider them
a. And accept, refund the penalty and everyone's happy.
b. And reject by issuing a Notice of Rejection in which case Zip, in the guise of you(with further authorisation) could take the matter to the adjudicator.

2. They disregard
We look at their reasons and offer advice on options.

Sorry, I don't mean to rush, but any advise/suggestion @cp8759, @H C Andersen please?