3. 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
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34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
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Hello,

I've ended up with with two PCN’s (on separate occasions) being issued for the same route.
Only found out that this road has been turned in to a bus route (after getting the PCN), my first time using this road in about 2 years. The 'bus gate' was opened in 21st May this year.

Notes:
The car was a lease car.
One of the PCN's has the name wrong.

PCN 1: LQ5384925A
https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBNE2t

PCN 1 Location:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/W55AKkcugNikQuAN8

PCN 2: LQ53890650
https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBNDDh

PCN 2 Location:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Mpuxohh3JDbF2Yv98

Is it okay to have both PCNs (same location & ) here or should I start a new one?
Any advise on challenging this would be appreciated.
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #1 on: »
Here's the first one - seems a clear contravention but is the approach clear in how to avoid. The Mini looks like it wants to turn around.

Have the PCNs been reissued to you in your name. If not they are not (yet) your PCNs.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2024, 09:18:20 pm by stamfordman »
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #2 on: »
Unfortunately GSV seems to be out-of-date and not showing the relevant signs. So to give final advice we really need to see what signs there are in advance of the actual bus lane/bus gate signs that indicate where the motorist needs to go to avoid the restriction. Any chance of you doing some legwork and posting photos ? We're looking for advance signs of the restrictions.

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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on October 19, 2024, 09:09:44 pm
The Mini looks like it wants to turn around.

Have the PCNs been reissued to you in your name. If not they are not (yet) your PCNs.


Appears to be getting directions/information from the guy on the bike
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #4 on: »
PCNs both been sent to me. Looks like the hire company has spelt my name wrong and also in different format.

1st PCN has incorrect spelling.
2nd PCN has initial then surname.

Will get some pictures of the route and post them all.
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #5 on: »
The postal PCN seems to be missing these statutory grounds of appeal

1) there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority;

2) the order which is alleged to have been contravened in relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is invalid;

3) the enforcement notice should not have been served because—

(i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or

(ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004, by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.

Missing just 1 ground would make the postal PCN invalid and require the penalty to be cancelled. When appealing, only point out 1 or 2 missing grounds so that 1 or 2 grounds are kept for another time. No point letting the council know the full extent of their incompetence in one go when it can be exploited.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2024, 11:29:01 pm by Phantomcrusader »
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #6 on: »
Here are the regulations. It seems Phantomcrusader is correct.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2022/9780348232752/contents
Regulation 5 contains the statutory grounds of appeal.
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #7 on: »
Thank you both. I will have a read of these and send off the appeal, with only 1 point.

There are lots of people still going through the 'Bus Gate'. It's made £1 million.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0kj1zrkp20o.amp

Also the sign comes just after the turn to avoid going through, I missed it.
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #8 on: »
Update:

I had a reply for both PCNs.

PCN:LQ53890650
This has been rescinded.
The reply was:
"Our records confirm that this is the 2nd penalty charge notice issued to your vehicle for the same contravention within 6 days and I acknowledge that you would not have received the first Penalty Charge Notice LQ5384925A prior to this contravention therefore as a goodwill gesture this Charge has been cancelled with no further action required."

PCN:LQ5384925A
I have had a response and the representations have been rejected.

Please can I request any further advice.

Thanks
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #9 on: »
Post the rejection but getting one cancelled is good news at least.

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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #10 on: »
Yes I'm happy one has been cancelled 🙂


See last 7 pics here:
https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBNE2t
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #11 on: »
From getting no reply to the above, I will assume there is no further advice.

As I only have 1 week left for the discounted price, I will pay it.

Thanks anyway.
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #12 on: »
So you are not prepared to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal on the basis that the council have committed a procedural impropriety by not including all the statutory grounds for an appeal in the PCN ?

Although the video shows you passing the bus gate signs, the council are obliged to obey the law same as you, so if they fail to follow the regulations on the content of a postal PCN, then they have committed a procedural impropriety and this is grounds for cancellation of the PCN; simple. 

The only downside is you have to risk the full PCN penalty, as the discount option is not available at the adjudicators.

So it's your call.
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #13 on: »
I was waiting for further advice. Unfortunately at this moment in time it's a little late for me I think.

I am on holiday on Monday for the whole week.

Thanks for your reply.
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Re: 34J - BEING IN A BUS LANE - LANCASHIRE
« Reply #14 on: »
Hello

I am hoping someone can advise me if their is any further action that i could take.


One of the PCNs was cancelled, and the other was not as per the letter I received after representation was rejected. I felt I had run out of time, so I intended to make payment.


When I tried to pay online, the PCN didn't exist. So I thought it had actually been cancelled. However last week I got a letter saying that I needed to pay.


I wrote a letter back stating that it doesn't exist and I can't pay it. I received a letter today, again telling me that I had to pay it.


I intend to write back with a screenshot showing that the PCN doesn't exist any more.

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