Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi all,

First message in the new forum, RIP to Pepipoo.

I was driving a hired car back in January and just got informed that I got a bus lane PCN, by the hire company. The company appealed in order to transfer liability to myself, however the council refused, saying that the keeper is responsible, and they have no obligation to transfer it to the driver.

I understand that the idea of doing that, is that they know that the company will pay and charge the driver.

But my question is... is that really legal ? It was always my understanding that the driver was always responsible for whatever breach of the highway code.

Below is the PCN and the Response, waiting for an advice before I call up the hire company (I know that the dates are quite back, I'v just received that from them in early April, and as I have moved house, I didn't receive the first communication). I'm not sure yet if they have already paid, if I go online, the payment option is still "available", but I will ask them.

Just wanted to know if yes or no the council is allowed to do that ?

Thank you all for your knowledge.

Yes as per MM. Be good to get this to the Tribunal.

Op knows all this as he won the famous key case v Ealing in November 2022.

Hang on a minute.  Why was it not passed onto the driver? This is not acceptable.  What do the T and Cs say?

Who is 'they'?

If the authority, there's no provision for them dealing other than with the RK.

If the hirer, then what options are easily accessible to the OP?

I believe that in general, the fine is just passed on to the driver for him to deal with it, and they are not used to the council refusing to do it.

Really. The person to whom the PCN and Enforcement Notices are sent is always liable, the only role for the driver would be to make reps on behalf of the RK, not to become the person liable.

I would love to see that happen. It is abhorrent that a consumer can be potentially disadvantaged in this way.

It is also an enabler for authorities.

(If it just so happened that I operated a ppc I could certainly see that I might implement an internal policy which involved me reminding finance cos of a non settled charge as a matter of course.)

Who is 'they'?

If the authority, there's no provision for them dealing other than with the RK.

If the hirer, then what options are easily accessible to the OP?

I believe that in general, the fine is just passed on to the driver for him to deal with it, and they are not used to the council refusing to do it.

Really. The person to whom the PCN and Enforcement Notices are sent is always liable, the only role for the driver would be to make reps on behalf of the RK, not to become the person liable.

The hirer. In that very case I had no option of appeal, because after the refusal from the council to transfer liability to the driver, the hirer company paid directly. So yes, zero option available to me, the driver. Had I been informed of the PCN back in January, then yes I suppose I could have dealt with it directly.

Quote from: estevenin on May 09, 2024, 11:21:40 pm

I have phoned the hire company, and they said that after the first challenge, they have paid it anyway. So it's game over, there won't be any NOR coming their way.

@estevenin so they didn't have to pay it but have chosen to do so of their own volition. Sounds like a commercial decision by them, nothing to do with you and you cannot be held liable.

If they ask you to pay I'd tell them to take a hike. I'll be more than happy to act as your McKenzie friend on this one if necessary.

I agree with you.

To respond to you all, I finally got my hand on the contract (just a piece of paper with some directions really), it only said that any PCN will be passed on to the driver for him to deal with. Nothing more than that, nothing about they paying the charge and pass this on.

So everyone is right, legally speaking, they would be fully liable for this charge. Because it's never been passed on. Good information if this happens to someone else in the future.

Thank you cp8759 for the offer, I have choosen to pay back the hire company anyway in that case, they are not simply a hire company, they are a claim company, my car got hit back in december and they were taking care of providing (PCO) car replacements, getting the costs back (of my now written off car) from them, as well as the loss of income claim. So I did not want to affect our commercial relationship, they have gone above and beyond so far to get me back on the road, and it's the 2nd time in 3 years I have to use them, and likely will in the future.

I am not too bothered of paying them back, I am bothered that the council got paid in the first place, for such a silly reason, this I would be willing to fight anytime.

Thank you all for responding, had never been aware that a council could refuse to transfer liability to the driver as I had never experienced that before, seems like it might be the start of a new practice for the councils, it makes their job easier, saves them from receiving challenges and tribunal stuff...

As CP mentionned, I'm sure this is on their mind : "but why don't you just pay the penalty and recharge it to your customer"

Thanks again, that is now closed and I hope it can help others.