3. Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
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Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
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Hi All,

Unfortunately, I got this PCN - Google maps took my wife through here and she simply did not see it.
I think they recently changed the layout of the road but cannot be sure.


CCTV Footage is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VpDuYF7Pi6dqZWc4xYfo5-2W8ZBk76Yz/view?usp=sharing

PCN is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YSiqA7lCLUhGTcpYkrKfZoL1jN5iklYF/view?usp=sharing

Streetview is here:
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. · goo.gl




I would be grateful for your help.
Zincy
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Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #1 on: »
The restriction has been in place since 5 November 2021, when The Waltham Forest (Prescribed Routes) (Vallentin Road region) (No.1) Experimental Traffic Order 2021 came into force.

That order has since expired, so I have requested a copy of The Waltham Forest (Prescribed Routes) (Vallentin Road region) (No. 1) Traffic Order 2023.

The deadline to make representations and preserve the discount is 6 September, the only obvious ground is that the grounds given on the website do not match the legislation:



However I'm minded to say that that should be kept in reserve for the tribunal, and a plea for discretion would be the best strategy to buy us some time.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks Cp, much appreciated, as always.

I'll share a draft here of my challenge on discretionary grounds for you to once over if that's okay?
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Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: zincy on August 28, 2023, 04:23:57 pm
I'll share a draft here of my challenge on discretionary grounds for you to once over if that's okay?
Sounds like a plan.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #4 on: »
@cp:  there have been decisions about the discrepancy between grounds published on websites and the actual PCN I believe. Adverse I recall.
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on August 28, 2023, 08:42:15 pm
@cp:  there have been decisions about the discrepancy between grounds published on websites and the actual PCN I believe. Adverse I recall.
Look on the PCN spreadsheet, key decisions tab, rows 419 to 422.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on August 28, 2023, 05:23:49 pm
Quote from: zincy on August 28, 2023, 04:23:57 pm
I'll share a draft here of my challenge on discretionary grounds for you to once over if that's okay?
Sounds like a plan.

Hi CP

I have now submitted the discretionary appeal. I beleive today was the last day to secure the discount.

Did you have any luck in retreiving the new traffic order?
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Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: zincy on September 06, 2023, 10:39:29 am
Did you have any luck in retreiving the new traffic order?
The council has until 27 September to provide it, though Waltham Forest usually come back long before the deadline.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Agree Agree x 1 View List
Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #8 on: »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #9 on: »
Hi CP & all,

https://www.docdroid.net/J78ufyE/notice-of-rejection-pdf

Notice of Rejection received.

Please kindly advise.

Thanks in advance!
Zincy
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Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #10 on: »
I have to say, in the absence of any obvious grounds this is going to be 50 / 50 at best. See what others say as you have over a week before the discount expires.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
« Reply #11 on: »
Thanks CP, I think I'll just pay it.
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  3. Havant Road E17 / Turner Road E17 - 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle