3. PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
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Author Topic: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA  (Read 1608 times)

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Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #15 on: »
hi all,

I just got a response from Westminster with a rejection notice. The letter says that I have a further 14 days from the 28/02/2024 to pay the fine of £65

https://ibb.co/5h3vSyyp

However, the City of Westminster website says:

"The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £130.00 on Mon, 3 Mar 2025. Please pay £65.00 now."

May this be a ground to challenge the case?
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Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #16 on: »
Quote from: runninghorse on February 26, 2025, 11:08:03 pm
However, the City of Westminster website says:

"The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £130.00 on Mon, 3 Mar 2025. Please pay £65.00 now."

May this be a ground to challenge the case?
Well, what would make the case open and shut is if the penalty actually increases to £130 on the website before 10 March, so it's worth checking the amount due on the council website this time next week. If it's gone up to £130 then you have an easy appeal on the ground that the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case:



The assertion that you cannot challenge the penalty twice is also incorrect, but more on that later.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #17 on: »
The Westminster website says now “The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £195.00 on Sat, 19 Apr 2025. Please pay £65.00 now.” Does this mean that the approach we had envisaged doesn’t work?
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Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #18 on: »
@runninghorse not necessarily, it just means you'll have to wait for the notice to owner. In the meantime do you have any evidence to confirm your viewing appointment?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #19 on: »
Thank you very much @cp8759 for your response on Wednesday this week. The notice to owner should be delivered by post at my home address right?

I definitely have evidence of the viewing appointment, but only via the exchange of whatsapp messages.
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Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #20 on: »
The Notice to Owner will go to the address of the registered keeper as held by DVLA.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #21 on: »
I still have not receive the notice to owner yet...should I just wait for this document to arrive?
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Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #22 on: »
Quote from: runninghorse on March 12, 2025, 07:23:41 pm
I still have not receive the notice to owner yet...should I just wait for this document to arrive?

Have you tried checking online to see if Westminster have a status/history page for your PCN (often lurking under Pay/Challenge my PCN or somesuch)?
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Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #23 on: »
thank you very much...I have tried but don't see such a section on the Westminster parking page. I can see in the reponse to my challenge that I should received the notice to owner within 14 days of this letter (14 February), which takes me to 28 February. The Westminster page still says "The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £195.00 on Sat, 19 Apr 2025. Please pay £65.00 now."


Option 2 - Make a Formal Representation
If you do not pay within 14 days from the date of this letter, the full charge of £130 will fall due. If you have not paid before
the end of this 14 day period or the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the PCN, whichever is the later,
then we will issue a Notice to Owner (NtO) to the registered keeper of the vehicle. The NtO will allow the registered keeper
to make full payment or a formal Representation, appealing against the issue of the PCN; the procedure for doing so will be
explained on the NtO. Any new evidence can be presented with the formal Representation.
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Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #24 on: »
I think this amounts to an unlawful threat:



The website is basically saying "pay now or else" and "You cannot challenge twice", while the truth of the matter is that if you don't challenge the notice to owner then you would end up with a charge certificate.

I believe once the NTO goes out the amount will change to £130 and the challenge button should re-appear, check the council website again at the end of next week.

Unfortunately the law gives them six months to serve an NTO, so it's a bit of a waiting game.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #25 on: »
Thanks a lot. I will check again in a week from now. Will I not risk that the fine goes up to £130 and even higher if I don’t pay before the date mentioned?
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Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #26 on: »
Quote from: runninghorse on March 12, 2025, 10:59:30 pm
Thanks a lot. I will check again in a week from now. Will I not risk that the fine goes up to £130 and even higher if I don’t pay before the date mentioned?

The penalty must go up to £130 in order for you to be able to make formal representations, that was always going to be the case.

It can't go higher than that without you first having the opportunity to make representations, and representations put the penalty on hold. Even if the Notice to Owner is lost in the post you'll still be able to make representations online, so as long as you check the website once a week or so there isn't any real risk in pursuing this.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #27 on: »
I would like to provide an update, as I just received the Notice to Owner in today's mail. Could someone advise what angle we could try in order to make a case?

My apologies for the rather large pictures...I didn't manage to shrink the format!

[/img]

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Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #28 on: »
Do you have any evidence of your viewing appointment? Not that that will win you the case, but if we can use it to get a failure to consider that could be enough on its own.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
« Reply #29 on: »
Yes, the appointment was confirmed by whatsapp
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  3. PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA