Author Topic: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner  (Read 338 times)

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jazabelle

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PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« on: July 26, 2023, 11:59:19 pm »
I have just been given a council PCN for not displaying a blue badge in the prescribed manner. I have a blue badge and it was displayed. It was slightly to an angle but still facing forward.

Is there anything I'm missing or do you think this is due to the angle? I've had a blue badge for many years and never had a ticket for the angle it's placed. 

I have emailed Colchester City Council to ask for any photographs/evidence to try and work out what they think I did wrong.  I will post any response I get from them.

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cp8759

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2023, 12:57:20 am »
Let's wait and see the enforcement photos, but the starting point is that the PCN appears to have been issued under the old 2007 regulations, which were abolished last year. That can be enough to win on its own.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

jazabelle

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2023, 02:10:23 pm »
Still no photos - but I phoned and spoke to them, and they read the notes and they are claiming I was overtime.

I arrived at 1.40.  I set the clock with the line just before the 1.45 mark as shown.  The ticket was issued at 4.25.  I arrived back just after 4.30 - with the three hour mark being 4.40.

They told me to appeal.

Should I state the regulations in my appeal also?

cp8759

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2023, 11:40:25 pm »
I can draft a representation for you, but first can you please show us the front of the PCN in full? We might as well check it properly.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

jazabelle

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2023, 04:59:24 pm »
That's really kind, thank you.

jazabelle

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2023, 05:50:08 pm »
I might have messed up. I had emailed them on day 1 asking for photos as I wasn't sure what I had done wrong. I was following their website which said to email to them to get copies of evidence.

They have replied today with no photos saying they had submitted my email as the appeal. 


jazabelle

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2023, 02:24:53 pm »
Should I go back and say the email wasn't the appeal and I was requesting the photos as per their website?  I just don't want to make another mis-step.

cp8759

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2023, 09:30:26 pm »
I think it seems they've messed up, and I would suggest there's no reason to warn them of that.

Treating a request for information as a representation can win the day, see Giles Fisher v London Borough of Hackney (2160248915, 15 July 2016) and Samantha Palihakkara v Watford Borough Council (WT00010-2002, 03 December 2020).

However I would really like to see the email you sent them before giving any definitive advice on the next steps.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2023, 09:35:22 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

jazabelle

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2023, 10:02:30 pm »
Thank you.  This was my email.

cp8759

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2023, 01:36:56 am »
You assertion in the email that the blue badge was correctly displayed is enough to amount to a representation, even if only just. At this point I'd just wait and see what they send back.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

jazabelle

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2023, 01:46:04 am »
But their website says to email to ask for copies of evidence. This is misleading if doing so becomes the appeal.  If I sent one in following the correct process i.e. using their form would they not take this into account also?

Especially as I now know by phoning them they were accusing me of staying over time - which I didn't. I really need to address that also.

cp8759

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Re: PCN: Blue Badge not displayed in prescribed manner
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2023, 01:52:30 am »
Especially as I now know by phoning them they were accusing me of staying over time - which I didn't. I really need to address that also.
Not really, if they reject the informal representations (which they almost universally do) you get another chance at the formal stage. Also, given the timings on the clock and the time stated on the PCN, we basically know you can't really lose this case as long as you don't miss any of the deadlines, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

You must also remember that the people who answer the phone are not trained appeals officers and they're giving you information based on their own guesswork / interpretation, and nothing that is said on the phone can really be relied upon. It would be more helpful to get an informal rejection that tells you you've overstayed, once you have that in writing you can use it at the next stage to make the point that their argument is flawed.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order