3. PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
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Driver86

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PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« on: June 18, 2023, 08:05:01 pm »
Summary:

Diverted into North bound Old St with sign saying follow route no CC etc. As I approached a junction with Bath St, I saw no further signage so thought it best to take Bath St which will take me to City road out of CC Zone where I can continue my journey.

But I got a PCN at Bath St.

Appeal turned down as they waffled on about me not paying CC, and the diversion route all clearly signed etc. I have now appealed at London tribunals.

Original thread here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=149612&hl=

To my horror they don't accept appeals for tfl PCN online! So I have written them an explanation with appeal and sent it recorded next day, called tfl the morning after to notify them I am taking it to adjudication and called London tribunals who confirmed they've registered the case with a postal hearing sometime around 14th July.
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cp8759

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Re: PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2023, 01:25:19 am »
You want to get that changed to a telephone hearing ASAP, postal hearings are really to be avoided. Just call the tribunal call centre and they'll change it with no fuss.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Appealnow2023

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Re: PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2023, 11:31:41 am »
Yes definitely change it to a personal telephone hearing.  If they insist that you email them use this template to email LT.Reception@londontribunals.gov.uk

Subject: I would like the above Case Reference: xxxxxxx ([appellant's name] -v- [Council name] to be heard as a telephone hearing on [Date]at [Time].  My contact telephone number is: [Your contact number]

Good morning/afternoon.
I would like the above Case Reference: xxxxxxx ([appellant's name] -v- [Council name] to be heard as a telephone hearing on [Date]at [Time].  My contact telephone number is: [Your contact number]

Yours sincerely


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TFL pay an extra fee (£4 I believe) not to use the use the tribunal portal.   That is no compensation for the motorist who has to deal with everything by post!

When you receive the TFL evidence you can submit your evidence by email to queries@londontribunals.org.uk quoting the case number and parties.
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Driver86

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Re: PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2023, 11:29:18 pm »
Thank you, yes I'll get this switched to a telephone hearing. I have TFL's evidence pack, most of it is just talking about the process they follow and their notice of rejection stating I should have followed signs to Goswell Road.

I've linked a piece of evidence they have sent me. What they sent wasn't clear, but there are 2 images of maps on there - looks like the planning/traffic order. The top image of the initial/main diversion sign and the bottom image appears to show where the diversion route signage "should" have been in place. https://ibb.co/C6TGLXv My thoughts are the folowing:

1. Is this all they will need to rely on to convince the adjudicator?
2. or because this is only a diagram/planning/traffic order, adjudicator would need an actual photo or video from them of my car passing this signage?

I find it criminal that they are even pursuing this!

Thank you in advance.
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cp8759

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Re: PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2023, 11:32:08 pm »
Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal hearing?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Driver86

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Re: PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2023, 11:48:33 pm »
Thanks very much for offering. I would like to do this myself if possible, are there any advice you can give for me to follow at the telephone hearing?

The vehicle is registered to my dad, so assuming I would need to get a consent to represent done by him?
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roythebus

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Re: PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2023, 11:56:24 pm »
I'd strongly suggest if you want a good chance of winning that you take up CP's offer to represent you. He seems to win most cases he challenges.
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cp8759

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Re: PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2023, 12:47:44 am »
Quote from: Driver86 on July 02, 2023, 11:48:33 pm
Thanks very much for offering. I would like to do this myself if possible, are there any advice you can give for me to follow at the telephone hearing?
If you call the tribunal they can send you a form your dad can fill in to authorise you to act on his behalf.

I can't really tell you how to be an advocate, it takes years to learn and I can't really construct an oral argument that I'm not going to argue myself. You have the key points, and all I can do is wish you the best of luck.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Driver86

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Re: PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2023, 11:49:41 am »
Thanks for letting me know. I have been thinking about this and wether I would be able to respond properly or know the range of legislations governing traffic orders, plus the previous cases and so would like to take you up on this offer!

What do you need from me?
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cp8759

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Re: PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2023, 10:32:59 pm »
I'll drop you a PM.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

cp8759

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Re: PCN after forced into CC Zone at Old St
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2023, 09:30:28 am »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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